#120830  by JonnyBoy
 Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:10 pm
I always assumed that SDS-1 was the Super Distortion Single. Could be wrong, but they are hot singles that work well for Jerry tone even as a middle strat pickup. (bring us full circle back to the "its in the hands").... But I love and will always use a regular Super Distortion as a bridge pickup. The bridge to me always sounded way thin as a split super II. So a Dual Sound in the Bridge would be a great choice for a bridge pick up if you want that to be able to split, but I would never use it on my guitar at least. I think some guitars may sound OK with that option, but not any of mine without changing amp settings and such. That being my personal experience, this kind of stuff is totally about your ear and taste. I think both will give you good Jerry "sound". Jim puts it right at listening between those years and deciding what you like best.
 #120833  by jenkins
 Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:20 pm
I believe sds1 is super distortion single as well.

In the middle position it works excellent for jerry tone, at this point I wouldn't change for anything in the world, First strums through my rig and it was exactly what I was looking for.

As for the bridge pup, I wish knew the difference between the super II & the super distortion. For some reason I think I thought they were the same thing a few years ago when I had mine modded.

I ain't changing the SDS-1 in the the middle but now I'm thinking I might wanna switch my bridge and neck pups to super distortions instead. The super II in the bridge is very bright an split on single mode it is a little too thin for my taste. To me it sounds nearly identical to the Cripe acoustic tone jerry got sometimes in the 90's. Set in position 2, I think, where it's bridge and middle pup combined it sounds like pretty fkn cool acoustic/country western kinda tone. Switching bridge to humbucker on the super II it still even has that thin, acoustic kind of effect. I'm on my middle single coil an easy 95% of the time.

But are the super distortions really that much more beefy sounding? If so I'm seriously considering buying a set and having them thrown in my jerryfied LP
 #120834  by waldo041
 Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:57 pm
first of all, the bridge pickup will inherently be of a higher tone then the neck or middle pickup. that is a direct result of where it is physically placed. that said, the correct coil used plus correct height should reveal a correct tone for the bridge split super 2, but YMMV. the bridge should be closest pickup to the strings with the high side closer then the low side. it should also be the coil on the neck side versus the bridge side when active. use of the bridge side coil will result in a thin tone, also, have the pickup not close enough and it will get thin as well.

i wonder why this guys split super 2 in the bridge doesn't sound thin or too bright?



Low Side
Image

High Side
Image


furthermore, the SDS-1 is NOT the same as a split Super Distortion/Dual Sound or Super 2. simple math can help put this myth to rest. Humbuckers are in fact 2 Single Coils wired in series. Knowing this then you can halve the sum of the humbuckers resistance to get the value of what 1 of the coils resistance will be. OR, you can also double the SDS's resistance and see that it is way over the values listed for both the Dual Sound/Super Distortion AND Super 2. So for the latter math, the SDS DC resistance value of 9.36k multiplied by 2 is 18.72k. neither of the mentioned Humbuckers DC resistance is close to this value.


Dual Sound/Super Distortion Specs:
Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 425
DC Resistance: 13.68 Kohm
Year of Introduction: 1974
Patent: n/a

Super 2 Specs:
Wiring: 4 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 400
DC Resistance: 8.7 Kohm
Year of Introduction: 1977
Patent: n/a

SDS-1:
Wiring: 2 Conductor
Magnet: Ceramic
Output mV: 200
DC Resistance: 9.36 Kohm
Year of Introduction: 1978
Patent: n/a

~waldo
 #120898  by Tony6Strings
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:50 am
I like Jerry's Dual Sound tone over the Super 2 tone. They're both great, I just have a slight preference of one over the other. It's got a bit more balls, more meat and potatoes mid range which I like. For my own guitars, I prefer a good strat single coil over either, for now. I'll probably give the Dual Sound another spin at some point.
 #120900  by Jon S.
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:18 am
I like, for my own guitars, using a Super Distortion in the bridge position and Super II's in the middle and neck positions.
 #120902  by tigerstrat
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:19 am
waldo041 wrote:i wonder why this guys split super 2 in the bridge doesn't sound thin or too bright?
Ooh! ooh! because he uses the tone control.

Right now in my Schecter, I'm running Super 2 (wired split) at Bridge; Super Distortion (wired split) at Middle; and Duncan Jazz (series) at Neck.
 #120913  by jenkins
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:57 pm
Hey Waldo(or anyone else) I got another Q.
Ok so the SDS-1 is clearly significantly hotter than a split super II.


So the question I have now is how about if you unwind the SDS-1 until its in the same ohm range as a split super II?
Then you would in effect have the same thing as a split super II right?
Am I missing something there?

I can't wait to raise my bridge pup to Jerry specs & see how it works. I always though it was bc he was playing a 13lb guitar and I'm playing like a 7-8lb ax, which obviously makes a difference but I'm very interested in trying it out.

& you can't just unscrew the super II as flip it to make the active coil on the neck side right? It needs to be rewired?

The other Q I have is about his acoustic like tone that he broke out in the 90's.
To me my bridge pup backwards and too low sounds very very similar. Is there any chance this is how he achieved that tone?
Do we know how JK is making that tone? Is it from his Roland synth?
 #120919  by gpilcher2001
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:35 pm
There is a post on here from Scott walker guitars that tells you how to pull one coil off of a super 2 and use in a strat. There's more to a pick up's tone than just the resistance. The magnet type, the bobbin material, what type of wire...... I would suggest walkers way if you want a single coil version of a super 2. Plus you get two of them out of the deal. You can flip the pick up to change which coil is what but you have to wire it right to keep the phase correct. I believe the rosebud schematic on Walds site shows you how to do this. Greg...



P.S. here is the link forum/viewtopic.php?t=12362
 #120930  by jenkins
 Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:20 pm
Very interesting gpilcher, you can actually split a super II into two single coils.
The shit I've learned from the website is just unbelievable.
The depth of knowledge on the forum is seriously impressive.


But an SDS-1 is a super distortion so theoretically its got the same magnets & wires, etc to where if you unwind it to the proper ohm range it would be fairly identical to a split super II, right? Or am i wrong in the assumption?

after reading more about it I think I know why I'm so happy with the SDS-1 in the middle. It's a hot, meaty sounding single coil. The dimarzio site describes it as being comparable to a soapbar pup. I think this is why i like it so damn much.
The specific tone I was searching for was '77. Jerry's 77 tone was just a monster, it was so thick and meaty, and he had the 'clean yet dirty' thing happening in spades. His 77 tone was just unbelievable and that's really what I was shooting for. For most of 77 he was using his bean with the three soapbar single coils. For me the SDS-1 in the middle seems perfect, with that thick mid range punch while still retaining the clarity of a single coil, I think I might've gotten lucky by choosing it thinkin it was the same as a split super II.

But I'll tell you this much, After reading this thread I'm gonna have to get a super II and take it apart like Scott walker describes and compare it to the SDS-1. I'm very interested in what I'll like more. I feel like I'm gonna like the SDS-1 more but I'm very curious. I feel taking apart a super II will be a way better idea then trying to unwind an SDS-1. Although looking at the #'s in Waldo's post I feel like I might prefer a dual sound split into a single coil over the super II.
So many choices!!

It's not hard to solder in a pup right? That's something pretty damn simple that anyone could do right?
I gotta learn how to do this so I can just change in & out pups on my guitar...but ever since I've gotten it modded I've been scared to touch it cus after years of searching for the sound, & thousands and thousands of dollars I finally have it where I like it. I'm scared to fuck it up lol. It took me a loooooooong time to get my tone to where I actually want it, holy shit!
 #120935  by Jon S.
 Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:51 am
I love Jerry's '77 tone, too. IIRC, Waldo clarified, in particular, that as you note, on the shows I dug the most, Jerry was playing his Travis Bean.
 #120942  by Mr.Burns
 Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:51 am
jenkins wrote:It's not hard to solder in a pup right? That's something pretty damn simple that anyone could do right?
I gotta learn how to do this so I can just change in & out pups on my guitar...but ever since I've gotten it modded I've been scared to touch it cus after years of searching for the sound, & thousands and thousands of dollars I finally have it where I like it. I'm scared to fuck it up lol. It took me a loooooooong time to get my tone to where I actually want it, holy shit!
You gotta practice, just like anything else. Solder together some scraps of wire, or to old junk pot terminals until you're comfortable. Soldering is easy, you gotta think that 99% of the people who do it for a living are totally unskilled. That is to say, the training required is minimal, and after a few joints, you got the hang of it. A decent soldering iron with a fine tip and a control knob will make it easy to be precise and accurate. Have some desoldering braid handy just in case, and practice using that, too. Keep your tip tinned and clean, one of those brass shavings cleaners are money well spent as you can clean your tip without cooling it on a sponge and having to wait for it to heat up again.
 #120947  by PaulJay
 Tue Nov 13, 2012 9:16 am
Jenkins, After reading your post, I took my SDS-1 in my strat out of the bridge position and switched it to the middle . Now I'm happy with the way it sounds there. And also saved money because I was ready to buy a set of new pick-ups for the guitar. Thanks
 #120949  by TI4-1009
 Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:17 pm
Mr.Burns wrote: and after a few joints, you got the hang of it.
:D