#160480  by Mithrandir
 Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:23 pm
I'm having a custom wolf made, and I've been scouring the web trying to find out as much as I can about wolf's neck profile. Maybe it's my neuroticism, but I think every detail can affect tone, even in subtle ways. I have found conflicting info regarding regarding wolfs neck radius.

Waldo puts it somewhere between 12" and 14" whereas others say it's 16" like Tiger. It's been hard to track down true measurements for Wolf's overall profile other than people describing it as "fat" or like a baseball bat. I know the nut width is pretty definitively 1 and 11/16ths.

Generally, Wolf's neck sounds pretty chunky and flat. That combined with Jerry's preference for high action with a large amount of neck relief has me questioning if I'd even enjoy the experience of playing the OG wolf (outside of the awesomeness of the experience of holding wolf of course).

I've concluded that I'll probably need to find a compromise between what I'm presently accustomed to and Jerry's specs. I'm thinking that I could really like a 14" radius with a slightly fatter C shaped neck. I also think I'll go with the intermediate nut width between 1 and 5/8ths and 1 and 11/16ths. As for set up, I like moderately high action but I hate bad intonation, so I'd have to find neck relief that was appropriate.

Anyone who knows more on the topic, please comment! Scarletfire is making the wolf for me, so any present owners are encouraged to post about their necks/ how they compare to the original. Also, any feedback regarding my thoughts on compromise are greatly appreciated.

Thank you to all!
Mithrandir
 #160481  by ac4468
 Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:06 pm
Have it built to how you are comfortable playing it! Otherwise you're throwing money away. On my personal Wolf I started out with a very chunky neck. I didn't like it at all so a year later I reshaped it and then I reshaped it again and then I was satisfied. The only noticeable change in how it sounds will be how the profile alters how you play it. Same for radius. I'd put it closer to 12" but you are better off going with what suits you.
tommybo liked this
 #160482  by GeneralGoldilocks
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:48 am
I've been really happy with Warmoth's compound radius fretboards, starts at 10 then goes to a flatter 16. but whatever feels good. I like the Warmoth Boat neck but whatever suits your taste.
ac4468 liked this
 #160484  by Jon S.
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:41 am
I've never understood why anyone would copy someone else's neck profile rather than selecting one that fits you personally the best. Who's playing the new guitar, Jerry or you?!
tcsned, strumminsix liked this
 #160486  by waldo041
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:25 am
If you don't already have a neck profile that you know you like and would love to have on every one of your guitars, how are you going to learn if you don't start somewhere? How do you know what size bat to use when you play baseball until you try one and say, nope that is to big or too heavy. Point is you have to start somewhere, and if a guy wants to start his personal quest where Jerry had his, why would anyone ever discourage or ridicule someone for doing so? A custom neck that is too big can be made to be smaller if needed. If you start small you have no other recourse. I agree, once you find your preference, stick with that, but first find that.

~waldo
ac4468 liked this
 #160488  by playingdead
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:51 am
I'm a guitar dealer -- lefties only! -- and I have a lot of guitars around at all times. I can tell you that the neck profile most definitely does make a difference in how the guitar sounds and sustains, in both electric and acoustic guitars. I am fortunate enough to be able to tolerate a lot of different sized necks, radiuses (radii?) and even nut widths without really noticing but I often will have guitars with identical woods and different necks and the bigger necks always sound better to me. I have a Tiger guitar -- I don't even know what the radius is or what profile it has but it's a fairly large neck. I have the same electronics in a guitar with a noticeably slimmer neck and it does not have the sustain or "weight" to the sound that the Tiger does. Unplugged Strats with bigger neck profiles often ring better than ones with slim necks, I have found the same to be true with PRS guitars.

Most of the people who have gone on this sort of tone quest eventually discover that everything matters -- at least a little bit. You also learn that it's easy to get wrapped up and convinced that something will really make a difference or that a guitar can be "better" due to some intangible and that is not always the case. I encounter customers who will not even consider a Stratocaster that weighs more than 7 pounds 3 ounces ... but I had a 74 Strat here that was literally a boat anchor -- northern ash, weighed over 9 pounds -- and it was one of the best sounding Strats I've ever played. I've had very light Strats that were dead as a doornail.

Waldo is right that you can make a large neck smaller -- sometimes. It depends on how deeply the truss rod channel is carved into the neck because once you uncover that, it's game over. My suggestion to the original poster would be to get to a dealer that has a lot of electric guitars in stock with different neck profiles, and just get your hands on everything you can till you find something that sits comfortably in your hands. Then play that guitar for a few minutes and if your hand does not hurt, start with that. If you can tolerate a bigger neck, I think that's a good thing. But it's important to play it for a while, because I can handle an R8 neck (very large profile) for as little bit but if I tried to get through an entire set my hand would start to hurt. Likewise, I have a Martin D-41 Special with a Mod V carve and it happens to sit right on the bone at the heel of my hand by my pinky and hurts like a sonofabitch after 10 minutes.

Some people have difficulty with a 7.25 radius -- found on vintage Strats -- but once you get up over 9.5 most people can handle it. PRS guitars are a 12. As long as you are not fretting out when you play you will probably be fine.
strumminsix, tcsned, ac4468 and 1 others liked this
 #160489  by strumminsix
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:52 am
waldo041 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:25 am
If you don't already have a neck profile that you know you like and would love to have on every one of your guitars, how are you going to learn if you don't start somewhere? How do you know what size bat to use when you play baseball until you try one and say, nope that is to big or too heavy. Point is you have to start somewhere, and if a guy wants to start his personal quest where Jerry had his, why would anyone ever discourage or ridicule someone for doing so? A custom neck that is too big can be made to be smaller if needed. If you start small you have no other recourse. I agree, once you find your preference, stick with that, but first find that.

~waldo
I agree. But his original post says he thinks it'll impact tone. Sure the mass will have an impact. But the fingerboard radius, no.
 #160493  by Jon S.
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:30 pm
Jon S. wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:41 am
I've never understood why anyone would copy someone else's neck profile rather than selecting one that fits you personally the best. Who's playing the new guitar, Jerry or you?!
The newest bark from the old dog was to mischaracterize my advice to the OP as "ridicule."

Damn right I discourage someone from starting his quest for a new guitar by ordering a neck to the same specs as his "hero." That is not smart at all.

Were he to, instead, play a preexisting guitar built to another player's specs and then, based on his personal experience, go with those, then that's a horse of a different color, a reasonable approach as I advised originally when I wrote to select the profile that fits you the best.

While I'm at it. Directing people to use PayPal gift to buy your merchandise is dishonest. It violates the PayPal's Terms Of Service agreement you agreed to when you opened your account with them while removing the normal buyer protections. The Gear Page has banned the practice. https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... s.1837532/ We should, too.
Last edited by Jon S. on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
rugger liked this
 #160494  by Jon S.
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:32 pm
playingdead wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:51 am
I'm a guitar dealer ...

... My suggestion to the original poster would be to get to a dealer that has a lot of electric guitars in stock with different neck profiles, and just get your hands on everything you can till you find something that sits comfortably in your hands. Then play that guitar for a few minutes and if your hand does not hurt, start with that.
Bingo. Another way to say, select the specs that work for you.
 #160495  by TI4-1009
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:44 pm
I've built two Precision Guitar kits, one of them is my Wolfish. They offer three size necks:

60’s – slim and fast 1st Fret .8″ / 12th fret .885 ”
59 – a big more girth – 1st Fret .877 / 12th fret.976
JR – baseball cut – 1st Fret .955 / 12th fret 1.125

I went with the middle (59) on both my builds and have been very happy with them. I also have a Martin D-18 GE which has a thicker but more "V" shape neck. I have a Gibson SG 61 Reissue that has a very slim "fast" neck, and my Phiga Tiger has a slim neck also. There are a lot of variables, but I'm becoming a believer that a thicker neck improves tone. I'm guessing it's the mass of wood doing something, but I don't know what.

I recently picked up an early 60s Kay Value Leader- I had one in high school and got this one for nostalgia. I was surprised that the neck is a real "baseball bat", and it's more "D" shaped- like my Epiphone Casino. It turns out to be a tone monster too- and it's not an expensive "name brand" guitar.

Many players just can't get past a thicker neck, and if you're one of them you'll be shooting yourself in the foot to put all that money and emotion into a guitar that your hands just won't like- even if does add some "tone". Good advice above to spend some time in guitar stores trying as many guitars as possible just to feel the necks. I'm jealous- as another lefty (without my own guitar shop... :lol: ) most of my purchases are unplayed beforehand. Good luck!
 #160500  by strumminsix
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:46 pm
TI4-1009 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:44 pm
Many players just can't get past a thicker neck, and if you're one of them you'll be shooting yourself in the foot to put all that money and emotion into a guitar that your hands just won't like- even if does add some "tone". Good advice above to spend some time in guitar stores trying as many guitars as possible just to feel the necks. I'm jealous- as another lefty (without my own guitar shop... :lol: ) most of my purchases are unplayed beforehand. Good luck!
Agreed. It comes down to playability. Once you find what works well for you, you never want anything else.

My most recent custom (Tele style, but waaay better) was commissioned to have the exact neck feel as my 1st custom. He had my #1 guitar for a month getting that shape and feel exact. It's so wonderful...
 #160501  by waldo041
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:05 pm
waldo041 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:25 am
I agree, once you find your preference, stick with that, but first find that.
Jon S. you are correct to take me to task for my dishonest and unscrupulous PayPal practices, especially in this thread about Wolf's neck profile. I apologize to all whom i have offended, especially you Mr. Silberman.

I myself have personally played several of Jerry's guitars and both the Action Set Up and Neck Profiles were definitely playable and worthy of a starting point in the world of guitar playing.

~waldo
 #160509  by Mithrandir
 Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:06 pm
Thought a lot about this the past couple days. I'm thinking about trying a compound radius, like 12" to the 10th fret and then move to a 16" for the remainder of the neck. I actually think I like thicker necks. I have a tiger build by Chris waldschmidt and I love the neck on the guitar. It's definitely meaty, bordering between a fat c and almost d profile. My strat has a modern c and it annoys me constantly as it is too think. . My resurrection bolt has a standard c but it's not beefy enough. So I think a chunkier c is the way to go. I'm also thinking of getting in an intermediate nut width as I like aspects of both 1 and 5/8ths and 1 and 11/16ths
 #160516  by strumminsix
 Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:50 pm
waldo041 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:05 pm
I myself have personally played several of Jerry's guitars and both the Action Set Up and Neck Profiles were definitely playable and worthy of a starting point in the world of guitar playing.

~waldo
My playability comment was about player preference, hand fatigue, and what's inspiring to pickup.

I totally agree it's a great starting point. I build a partscaster with a boat neck. Hated it. Could never bond with it. And the luthier refused to take it down too far for fear of exposing the truss. Ended up selling the only guitar I ever put together myself cuz I didn't take time to understand what I like.
 #160518  by Mithrandir
 Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:06 pm
Woah, this post just generated some hard feelings. I feel the need to protect my common sense here. I never stated that I was determined to go with Jerry's specs. I just wanted to preserve aspects of his tone if I could through compromise between the original specs and my custom specs. I know neck mass plays into tone, and I know action does. I also think that radius does as well because vibratos are easier on a flatter fretboard, and we can all attest to that aspect of Jerry's playing. As for my conclusions. I think I'm going to go with a slightly fatter c neck due to the respective advantages of two of my guitars. I think I will go with a 12' radius either throughout or up to fret 10 or 12 and then use 14 or 16 from there. I'll use medium high action and a very small amount of neck relief. BOOM! that's basically what I play now, plus a tiny bit of neck mass and flatness, things that would make me like my Rez bolt a whole lot more fun to play.