#173215  by Slewfoot2000
 
Hi Guys,

Hope all is well. Had some questions for the experts on here regarding Wolf & Alligator and their tonal differences in the 72 - 74 era.

I've often read that Wolf was initially made to essentially be like a Super Strat. Based on the wiring schematics from Waldo in the link below, that seems pretty much the case as the wiring (to my novice eyes) seems just about identical. The pickups were also basically the same.

http://waldotronics.com/spudwiring.html

But as we all know, the tone of Wolf and Alligator were vastly different. To my ears, I describe Alligator as having that classic Strat snap, but with a thicker, denser tone than most Strats. You never got any of that harsh brightness that you can sometimes get from Strats.

Wolf had much of all that yet it had a clearer, softer, rounder tone. It has always sounded to me like the strings of Wolf were made of hay in that 73 / 74 era as they had such a natural sound to them.

So if Wolf and Alligator had such similarities, why did they sound so different?

Was it primarily the different woods used? The Neck through construction? Were there some other electronic differences such as the pots being very different? Was Irwin able to work some magic in the tone knobs adding some uniqueness? All of the above? Something else?

Curious if there are some specific points about Wolf that make it so different I might be missing.

At some point I will be getting a Wolf inspired guitar and I love the 73 / 74 era for that instrument.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. I've done numerous online searches and haven't found anything definitive. Of course, perhaps there is nothing definitive!

PS - I should mention that I'm not at all expecting to sound like Jerry nor want to sound like Jerry. It's more that I'm looking for the highest quality instrument I can get that is inspired by the beauty and tone of Wolf.
 #173217  by Darkstar860
 
Strat has a different scale length. 21 frets not 24. One has single coil pickups and a stratoboost. One has Humbuckers and a single in neck that are splittable and a OBEL system. Getting the Alligator tone imho is much easier to get because its a Strat basically. I like the Wolf guitars more, hence why I own a bunch of Wolf guitars. I have a few G&L guitars and one is a 93 Legacy (3 bolt neck) w/ Maple FB and this guitar can sound just like Alligator. Finding a guitar that sounds like Tiger or Alligator is not as easy imho. But thats just me.

:-)
 #173218  by Slewfoot2000
 
Darkstar860 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:07 pm Strat has a different scale length. 21 frets not 24. One has single coil pickups and a stratoboost. One has Humbuckers and a single in neck that are splittable and a OBEL system. Getting the Alligator tone imho is much easier to get because its a Strat basically. I like the Wolf guitars more, hence why I own a bunch of Wolf guitars. I have a few G&L guitars and one is a 93 Legacy (3 bolt neck) w/ Maple FB and this guitar can sound just like Alligator. Finding a guitar that sounds like Tiger or Alligator is not as easy imho. But thats just me.

:-)
Good point on the scale length. But would that really affect the tone so much?

I believe both Alligator and Wolf had Stratoblasters although I think Alligator was more of a prototype while Wolf was more of a fully realized version. I could be wrong there though.

Does OBEL actually affect tone?

I'm currently more focused on the original Wolf that had the 3 single coil 1954 style Alnico 3 pickups (just like Alligator). Once they started using DiMarzio's and changed the wiring it basically sounded like Tiger (which is fine although just different).
 #173219  by Darkstar860
 
Well the OBEL preamp I have, has a boost. So yes it effects the tone. I cut out the OBEL jack and switch on mine because i dont use the OBEL. But i still wanted the preamp and boost. So i removed the wire from the obel on and off switch and put it to my Vol pot and I was able to remove the other jack and the switch. ;-)

But yes it def effects the tone, in a good way ! :-)
 #173220  by Jon S.
 
To quote the sage philosopher, Earl Weaver, who said this in response to a reporter's question as to whether Weaver's replacement of a strong fielder in the top of the 9th inning with a pinch hitter who was a better batter but worse fielder caused the O's to lose the game when the replacement player made an error in the bottom of the 9th, "Everything affects everything."
Last edited by Jon S. on Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #173222  by Slewfoot2000
 
100% on the total being greater than the parts. All the details certainly add up.

The one thing that hasn't really been clearly defined with the original Wolf seems to be the electronics. Specifically the types of pots / logs used. For all we know Irwin may have used some Gibson factory parts together with the Fender pickups to give a unique tone.

I actually just sent off a note to Doug Irwin via his site about the electronics. Imagine that information may all be lost to time, but figured it can't hurt to ask!
 #173223  by caspersvapors
 
Slewfoot2000 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 4:27 am
Darkstar860 wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 8:07 pm Strat has a different scale length. 21 frets not 24. One has single coil pickups and a stratoboost. One has Humbuckers and a single in neck that are splittable and a OBEL system. Getting the Alligator tone imho is much easier to get because its a Strat basically. I like the Wolf guitars more, hence why I own a bunch of Wolf guitars. I have a few G&L guitars and one is a 93 Legacy (3 bolt neck) w/ Maple FB and this guitar can sound just like Alligator. Finding a guitar that sounds like Tiger or Alligator is not as easy imho. But thats just me.

:-)
Good point on the scale length. But would that really affect the tone so much?

I believe both Alligator and Wolf had Stratoblasters although I think Alligator was more of a prototype while Wolf was more of a fully realized version. I could be wrong there though.

Does OBEL actually affect tone?

I'm currently more focused on the original Wolf that had the 3 single coil 1954 style Alnico 3 pickups (just like Alligator). Once they started using DiMarzio's and changed the wiring it basically sounded like Tiger (which is fine although just different).
I dont think we can conclude that Wolf had the same 54 era spec single coils as Alligator
 #173224  by Slewfoot2000
 
caspersvapors wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:52 amI dont think we can conclude that Wolf had the same 54 era spec single coils as Alligator

Not definitively. But that is what it says on Waldo's site where he has tons of amazing research for us all...and Jerry has gone on record that he would change out his pickups once or twice a year so it stands to reason they would be pretty close, potentially having both been purchased in 1973 (Alligator's last pair and Wolf's first pair).
 #173228  by Slewfoot2000
 
mkaufman wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:28 pm To clarify, original Wolf had single coils and no OBEL.

ace
Correct. Although even if it's not historically accurate, I would still get an OBEL even with SSS in a 73 / 74 Wolf inspired guitar. The use of the OBEL is too good to pass up!
 #173230  by lbpesq
 
When I had my custom Alembic Further built, I left out the OBEL. I prefer to go wireless. Less hassle and no shocks!. I essentially accomplish the same effect as an OBEL by leaving my guitar volume on "10" and putting a volume pedal at the end of my effects chain.

Bill, tgo
 #173246  by caspersvapors
 
Slewfoot2000 wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:11 pm
caspersvapors wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:52 amI dont think we can conclude that Wolf had the same 54 era spec single coils as Alligator

Not definitively. But that is what it says on Waldo's site where he has tons of amazing research for us all...and Jerry has gone on record that he would change out his pickups once or twice a year so it stands to reason they would be pretty close, potentially having both been purchased in 1973 (Alligator's last pair and Wolf's first pair).
I think Ive read the interview where Jerry said that which may have been in the late 70s/early 80s where he was using aftermarket pickups like Dimarzios in his guitar.

If he had been swapping single coils in Wolf or Alligator then I think we can almost guarantee that they were NOT alnico 3/54 specs.
 #173248  by Slewfoot2000
 
caspersvapors wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 4:36 pmIf he had been swapping single coils in Wolf or Alligator then I think we can almost guarantee that they were NOT alnico 3/54 specs.
I hear you for the fact that they technically stopped being sold after 1954-ish.

The general consensus online seems to be that Alligator did have the Alnico 3 pickups.

It's certainly possible Waldo could be mistaken with Wolf, but he usually seems to research this stuff and talks to primary sources at times. I'll reach out to him to see where he may have gotten that info.

But in general, The Dead and their crew were very resourceful as we know. Can totally see them buying a few dozen of those pickups somewhere that still had stock if Jerry preferred them.