#170880  by Chocol8
 
Looking at the various electronics setups over the years, I am not sure I am fully grasping the OBEL or why I would want to install one. I see it as two pieces.

1) The guitar signal goes through a "blaster" or buffer to lower impedance which allows it to drive long cables and allows the volume to be adjusted without losing highs. Later, with the introduction of the OBEL in the TB500 and all guitars after, the buffer is before volume control so the full and consistent output level hits effects, especially the Mutron. (I completely understand this!)

2) After the effects, it runs back to the guitar, through a volume pot, and then out to the amp. (Hmmmm?)

For the first part, it seems the gain varied throughout several iterations from positive gain with the Stratoblaster, to unity gain and the the -1.7 db gain. Was this simply to balance out the levels between the pickup levels? More gain for the vintage Strat, negative gain for the hot Dimarzios? Or was there some other reason the buffer output level evolved?

The second part is what I don't fully grasp. Why run the signal back in to the guitar, through a volume pot and back out? Wouldn't it be easier to use a volume pedal after the effects? That seems like it would achieve the same thing without needing a second jack and two cables to the guitar. Volume pedals existed well before the OBEL, and even if they didn't, it seems the Dead had plenty of electronics expertise to make one. So, it seems running the signal back through the guitar was a definite choice and not due to necessity or lack of knowledge. The only reason I can think of is Jerry really preferred finger control to foot control. Is there something else besides personal preference that I am missing?

Thanks for any insight!
 #170881  by lbpesq
 
As I understand it, the purpose of the OBEL is so the effects pedals always see the same signal. This made it easier for Jerry to replicate his sound from gig to gig. I prefer to use a wireless, so, like you suggest, I usually keep my guitar volume set at “10” and place a volume pedal at the end of my signal chain to accomplish a similar result as the OBEL. The difference is that in a rig like mine the signal goes through the tone pot before the pedals, while on an OBEL the signal goes through the tone pot after the pedals.

Bill, tgo
 #170882  by augustwest1
 
I'm sure personal preference explains a lot of it. There's a pretty huge difference between controlling your volume from your guitar v. with a pedal, especially for a player like Jerry who fiddled with his volume level all the time, often making pretty minute adjustments.

The other bit of functionality you didn't mention is the OBEL switch: it allows you to kill all your effects with the flip of a switch. That's something Jerry also used all the time. Check out any Terrapin end jam, and you'll see him constantly loading up his effects, and then killing them all with the switch. It's especially useful for a player like Jerry who tended to run around the stage a lot and simply couldn't be anchored to a pedal board. :wink:

Here's a good example of it (from an otherwise awesome video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQRcVBF8wQc
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 #170883  by franklins_timmy
 
I was thinking of starting an OBEL Alternatives thread these past few days, ha :biggrin:. I don't have an OBEL in any of my guitars & don't really want to put one in... I was going to ask about using a volume pedal at the end of my chain.

So from the few posts here it seems using the volume pedal is pretty similar, yes? Anybody have suggestions on a volume pedal that has good control, so you can be fairly precise with setting the volume? Putting it at the end of the chain, would you want active or passive? I see that Ernie Ball has both.

Thanks
 #170884  by Chocol8
 
Ahhh!!! I think Bill has the answer I was missing! Post effects tone control!

So, to replicate it with a single guitar cable, two volume pedals, one modded to add a tone cap, the other pure volume. I don’t think I need to go to that extreme, but good to know I could if necessary.

Switching the loop on and off is easy with a loop foot switcher. A lot of guitarists build pedal boards with effects in loops that can be switched on and off.

The key seems to be having post effects tone, volume and loop switching at your finger tips and not your feet. Tone wise, there wouldn’t be any difference.
Last edited by Chocol8 on Sun May 09, 2021 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 #170885  by Chocol8
 
augustwest1 wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:02 pm It's especially useful for a player like Jerry who tended to run around the stage a lot and simply couldn't be anchored to a pedal board. :wink:
Jerry running around the stage must have been before my time! :lol:
 #170886  by Chocol8
 
franklins_timmy wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 3:50 pmPutting it at the end of the chain, would you want active or passive? I see that Ernie Ball has both.
Assuming you have a buffer, booster, or blaster, or buffered pedals etc. you would either want an active volume pedal for the end of the chain, or maybe a passive pedal made for active pickups with a lower volume pot value. Active is the safer choice.

See Missions explanation:
https://missionengineering.com/volume-pedal-qa/
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 #170887  by NeilG1
 
Bob - that video put a huge grin on my face!
Thank you

big +1 for OBEL - the "kill switch" aspect, and the full use of your volume dial are amazing to have.
I miss it when I play my non-OBEL guitar now
 #170888  by lbpesq
 
I use a passive Ernie Ball for active pickups (my PRA Wic wireless puts out a low impedance signal, just like the Alembic pickups I use). I also recently picked up a Visual Sound volume pedal that has an LED array on the side to give you a visual read out of your level. I didn’t want the extra wires of an OBEL and had my custom Alembic Further built without it.

Bill, tgo
 #170896  by TI4-1009
 
#1- having the full signal hit the Mutrons no matter what volume you select,

#2- effects kill switch.
 #170897  by bzbz
 
TI4-1009 wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:22 am #1- having the full signal hit the Mutrons no matter what volume you select,

#2- effects kill switch.
Dont forget having the tone knobs function a little differently yes? Tone is applies post pedals.

And your #1 is correct, and it is great with the MuTron for sure - but it is really having all in-loop pedals "see" a full signal. So there is no volume dependency on getting a full distortion etc.

Yes?
 #170899  by Chocol8
 
bzbz wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 9:46 am Dont forget having the tone knobs function a little differently yes? Tone is applies post pedals.

And your #1 is correct, and it is great with the MuTron for sure - but it is really having all in-loop pedals "see" a full signal. So there is no volume dependency on getting a full distortion etc.

Yes?
Yes, the tone control AFTER effects is the big thing I missed. Effects like the Distortion + can create additional high frequency harmonics, so they will sound quite different with a tone control rolled back before vs after.

That’s why a lot of people, including Jerry put EQ pedals after effects, but having an additional level of control at your fingers was probably a factor for Jerry. His rigs were super bright, so I am pretty sure he used the tone control quite a bit.
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 #170925  by cyrusj83
 
Wait, what? On a five-way blade, how is tone post-pedal?

My elementary understanding is that on a Strat-style guitar with an OBEL, P/U's and tone caps go straight into the P/U selector which goes straight out into the OBEL switch.

Like, I thought the blade was the CPU of the rig that sets up the tone and pickup, and then once that's settled, off to the DPDT OBEL switch, and then finally to the vol pot and output jack?

I'm intrigued now.
 #170929  by Chocol8
 
You could wire the tone pot to the switch like standard Fender or to the volume pot, Gibson or Gretsch style. With the OBEL, one would be before effects the other after. I have no idea which one Jerry used.
 #170930  by Chocol8
 
OK, so I looked up schematics and found a couple different ones for Tiger. If they are accurate, the tone pots were connected to the switch and the only post OBEL control is the 25K volume pot.

Therefore, putting a 25k “for active pickups” passive volume pedal at the end of the effects chain will give exactly the same tone and functionality as running back to the guitar OBEL style. Assuming you have a booster/buffer/preamp in the guitar, and you pull the guitar volume pot out of the circuit.

You would have a foot switch to bypass the effects loop and a foot volume control, vs a on guitar toggle switch and volume control. Otherwise, identical tone and identical controls.

Personally, I prefer foot controls because your right hand can keep playing, but Jerry must have had a strong preference for on guitar finger controls. I also much prefer not to deal with the weight and hassle of two cables. Or you could go wireless like Bill.