#173359  by Cozmik Cowboy
 
OK, I will admit upfront that I have only read this last page of the thread - but I'm gonna go ahead and spout off anywho.

I have not seen D&C, nor do I have any intention to; I have seen several show vids, and my take is this: John is a pretty decent guitarist - but he is not a Dead guitarist. I have always thought that what made Our Heroes different was that, when most rockers say "jamming", it means that the rhythm section puts down a groove, into which the lead guitarist lays a (probably memorized) maturbatory solo; now, don't get me wrong - I'm not particularly opposed to musical onanism. I mean, I like a good wank as much as the next guy. But when the Dead said "jamming", it meant that everybody was improvising; as Mickey once said, "We use a rock lexicon with a jazz syntax".

John is, I fear, the former sort of "jammer". Besides, I don't really trust anyone who's never gotten high........

To contrast, I saw The Dead with Jimmy Herring & Joan Osborne ('04?), and it was great; not, of course, GD, but damn fine. Jimmy could bring it in a GD way, which John (nor Trey nor Warren) cannot.

As to those running down Bobby, I saw an interview once where Jer said "His playing provides the only context where my playing makes any sense." I don't have a favorite guitarist - too many fine pickers, too many genres, too many moods; it changes by the hour. But if the Guitar Genie came out of my soundhole tonight and told me I could have the chops of any one player, living or dead (nyuk nyuk), I would not hesitate to speak the name of Mr. Robert Hall Weir. At his best (meaning when he is being a guitar player & not a Rock Star, throwing back his head and yelling "Caw!"), he is the only genius of rhythm guitar in the history of rock. While I love Billy, Mickey, and all the keyboardists except Vince*, to me the heart of the Dead was the interplay betwixt, Jerry, Bobby, and Phil.
And i know Bill will mock me for this, but I love his slide playing, too.

*Vince, like John, is a fine player - who to my ear didn't fit the band.
 #173360  by lbpesq
 
Very much agree. I don’t believe I’ve heard the Mickey Hart quote before, but for many years I’ve been describing the Dead thing as a jazz approach using rock ‘n roll tools. As for post-Jerry players, I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised by Trey at the Fare Thee Well shows in Santa Clara. And I’ve enjoyed Haynes playing with Phil & Friends several times. I also enjoyed the first post Jerry incarnation with Steve Kimock and Mark Karan.

Jerry invented before our eyes and ears. On his best nights he somehow tapped into the energy of the room and the cosmos, got in lock step, and brought us all along for the ride. That’s not easy to replace.

I also love Bobby’s playing, especially before he became “the cute one”. I also love Keef’s rhythm playing. And a guy I saw years ago playing rhythm guitar in the Neville Brothers.

Oh yea, about Bobby’s slide: For what was needed on the slide tunes, mostly LRR, he eventually laid done a decent part. The tough part was earlier as he was learning how to play on stage!

Bill, tgo
 #173365  by Cozmik Cowboy
 
lbpesq wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 12:54 am Very much agree. I don’t believe I’ve heard the Mickey Hart quote before, but for many years I’ve been describing the Dead thing as a jazz approach using rock ‘n roll tools. As for post-Jerry players, I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised by Trey at the Fare Thee Well shows in Santa Clara. And I’ve enjoyed Haynes playing with Phil & Friends several times. I also enjoyed the first post Jerry incarnation with Steve Kimock and Mark Karan.

Jerry invented before our eyes and ears. On his best nights he somehow tapped into the energy of the room and the cosmos, got in lock step, and brought us all along for the ride. That’s not easy to replace.

I also love Bobby’s playing, especially before he became “the cute one”. I also love Keef’s rhythm playing. And a guy I saw years ago playing rhythm guitar in the Neville Brothers.

Oh yea, about Bobby’s slide: For what was needed on the slide tunes, mostly LRR, he eventually laid done a decent part. The tough part was earlier as he was learning how to play on stage!

Bill, tgo
Bob was always "the cute one"; see Phil's book, where he talks about a Playboy Bunny & a Miss September in '66 or so debating who got to take Bobby home, or BW's "Hostility Suite" (as the rest of them called it) in hotels later, where he'd hold court & let the girls work it out who it would be tonight.
But yeah, he shouldn't have let it become his stage persona, too.
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 #173366  by strumminsix
 
Cozmik Cowboy wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 8:40 pm As to those running down Bobby, I saw an interview once where Jer said "His playing provides the only context where my playing makes any sense."
I love this quote so much!!! It's also why Jerry was upset when he heard live recordings and Bobby was so low in the mix. He knew his solos without the accompaniment were negatively impacted...
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 #173367  by Jon S.
 
I've never understood how anyone's benefited by complaining about and putting down a musician, his band, and the band's music when one has no intention of buying a ticket or listening to it anyway.

Frankly, I don't give a f- how Mayer's guitar playing is characterized by anyone but Bob and me. Bob loves Mayer's musicianship. So do I. And that's enough for me.

I mean the next statement respectfully - if I've missed the mark, my bad, apologies.

If you don't like D&C or JM, just continue streaming/spinning your old Grateful Dead albums and live shows at home or otherwise.
 #173368  by lbpesq
 
I have very much enjoyed Mayer's solo work for many years. He's a helluva talent. And while I do appreciate what he does with D&C, I can also recognize there are players I have preferred in that particular chair.

And, having recently watched a D&C concert from Wrigley Field in June, I have to admit they put on a good slow that night.

I have attended many Grateful Dead shows where I walked out disappointed ... they didn't have "it" every night.

I don't think anyone here has meant to put anyone down or disparage anyone's playing. Rather, some are expressing preferences and explaining why. All in good fun.

In the iconic words of Ringo: Peace & Love.

Bill, tgo
 #173369  by Feedback
 
It's not putting D&C down, I just don't like them. They are a competent cover band, but there is not the magic of the early Dead. Not that there has to be, most bands don't have it, but I find them uninteresting. I'll take most of Phil's bands any day over D&C. And hell, I thought most of the real scene was over after 1972.

As for who should have replaced Jerry, I have always thought Nels Cline would have killed in that spot. He could and can play any thing. This was pre-Wilco. I had the pleasure of speaking with Nels and he was definitely tuned into the Dead, told me he thought Jerry from 1968 to 1971 was doing something quite special.

I am not so sure Mayer is there only because of his playing. Bob was the Rock and Roll hound dog and maybe he sees JM as a continuation of his own lost youth; young, good looking and gets all the girls. OK player, just as others have said, doesn't fit here.
 #173371  by Cozmik Cowboy
 
Speaking for myself - I'm not putting anybody down; have I said anybody wasn't good? I think not. Just explaining why I think some are a better fit for this music than others.
And I will keep listening to my old Grateful Dead, thank you very much - and more different music than you can shake a stick at (I will make special mention of Achilles Wheel). But I am under no obligation to like everything everybody does.
 #173373  by Gr8fulCadi
 
Jon S. wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 1:03 pm I've never understood how anyone's benefited by complaining about and putting down a musician, his band, and the band's music when one has no intention of buying a ticket or listening to it anyway.

Frankly, I don't give a f- how Mayer's guitar playing is characterized by anyone but Bob and me. Bob loves Mayer's musicianship. So do I. And that's enough for me.

I mean the next statement respectfully - if I've missed the mark, my bad, apologies.

If you don't like D&C or JM, just continue streaming/spinning your old Grateful Dead albums and live shows at home or otherwise.

Surprised these have not been recommended…

Image

I’ve seen quite a few Dead n Co shows and enjoyed them, but when I’m in the car or back yard I prefer streaming/spinning my old Grateful Dead albums and live shows.
 #173375  by Jon S.
 
LOL on the cookies!

I stand by my comments.

Every alternative suggested guitarist, if Bob had actually chosen him instead of JM, would be attracting either the same negativity as JM does from some people or (likely) worse.

I’m sorry Jerry’s long dead (small d), too. I still listen to him every single day, too. But putting down D&C and Mayer today will neither bring Jerry back nor bring anyone happiness.
 #173379  by Latetothebus
 
I think john is just now....beginning to get it...and gel with chimenti in a new way that begins to approach the jams brent and jerry had...i have heard some pretty good stuff coming out of this tour and really enjoyed seeing them in bristow va
 #173380  by Jon S.
 
Latetothebus wrote: Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:12 am really enjoyed seeing them in bristow va
Me, too - great show! :rockon:
 #173382  by Jon S.
 
This statement by Jed Gottlieb of the Boston Herald sums it up for me:

"There’s no downside to John Mayer playing with members of the Grateful Dead."

https://www.bostonherald.com/2017/11/17 ... eful-dead/
 #173383  by Cozmik Cowboy
 
lbpesq wrote: Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:16 pm I have attended many Grateful Dead shows where I walked out disappointed ... they didn't have "it" every night.
Bill, tgo
Quoth Bobby "If you go diving for pearls, sometimes you're going to come up with a clam."

Our local NPR station used to air a fairly bad show* hosted by the "pop music critics" or the Chicago Tribune and Sun-Times, neither of whom Got It. One of them said a Deadhead had told him they had the magic about 3 out of 10 shows, and why would anyone go see a band that sucked 7 nights out of 10?

I sent him an e-mail (which remains unanswered several years later) explaining that you have to extrapolate tht to 100 shows, 30 of which would be magic - but that doesn't mean that 70 shows sucked; maybe 3 or 4 would suck; the 66 or 67 were merely better than any other band you've ever heard.........

*Yes, i listened to a "fairly bad" show; I was driving the local cab (yes, singular), the CD player had died, and my other radio choices ran bro-country/rap/rap/bro-country/Bible-thumper/bro-country....you get the idea.
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 #173391  by Smilin' Jeerden
 
I've seen Dead and Company three times and had a great time every time. The music is good and they are really coming together as a band. Are they on every night? Probably not but the shows I have seen have been very enjoyable. The Philly show was awesome! It's hard to be critical especially when Bobby, Billy, and Mickey are all in their 70's and won't be touring forever. The fact that they are together and still touring is a blessing. We should all be healthy playing the music we love into our 70's and well beyond.
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