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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #32799  by Panda Licker
 Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:58 pm
I'm sort of new to the Grateful Deads style of improv. I've been listening for years, but I've only recently started trying to play it.


So my question is, in Ship of Fools, how do you treat the Edim7 chord? Every other chord of the song fits into the Bb Major scale, which really simplifies things as I try to improv basslines over the tune. But when I hit that Edim7, I'm lost. Mostly I've just been sticking to chord tones and keeping it extremely simple, but thats because I don't know what else to do. Knowing how to treat single chords that fall out of the main key has really been a stumbling block for me as I try to play the deads stuff.

So my question is, what scale would I want to use over this chord if I wanted to incorporate some non chord tones? Would I be right in thinking of it as the vii of V and working off of the 7th mode of the Fmajor scale? (with a Db instead of a Dnatural, ofcourse), or am I looking at this problem wrong? Some sort of explanation on this would really help me out.

 #32800  by Panda Licker
 Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:02 pm
I dont know why this posted in Russian Lullaby. Something must be screwy with the link to the song discussion forum off of the tabs list

 #32802  by jck_strw
 Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:24 pm
Fixed.

 #32805  by IamDocWatson
 Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:27 pm
im not sure on this matter because my knowledge of playing bass extends only to 1-5-1-5-1-5-1-5

but why not just try the Ediminished scale over it

 #32806  by strumminsix
 Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:41 pm
An Eo7 is also a Bb07 8)

Try hitting -v , viii, vi, v, i

 #32831  by Panda Licker
 Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:22 am
strumminsix wrote:An Eo7 is also a Bb07 8)

Try hitting -v , viii, vi, v, i
But that still doesn't really fit the "key"

so would I be better off harmonically using a Bb lydian?

I was thinking that if you used an Eb lydian, atleast then I can call it vii* of V, which would atleast make it make sense as to why such a chord works, from what I understand of theory.

 #32835  by astroman99
 Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:46 am
I would say pick from the following notes, minor thirds starting with the E, so E-G-Bb-C#-E, don't play bass though, but if that is the chord, those should be the right notes to play off of!

 #32837  by Panda Licker
 Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:03 am
astroman99 wrote:I would say pick from the following notes, minor thirds starting with the E, so E-G-Bb-C#-E, don't play bass though, but if that is the chord, those should be the right notes to play off of!
Yeah, those are the chord tones, but what scale should I fit that into?

 #32867  by strumminsix
 Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:55 pm
Panda Licker wrote:
strumminsix wrote:An Eo7 is also a Bb07 8)

Try hitting -v , viii, vi, v, i
But that still doesn't really fit the "key"

so would I be better off harmonically using a Bb lydian?

I was thinking that if you used an Eb lydian, atleast then I can call it vii* of V, which would atleast make it make sense as to why such a chord works, from what I understand of theory.
The song's key is Bb, yes?

Besides the E, which is an exception, the short run I gave plays notes of the Eo7 & Bb major scale.

I'm missing your point.

You can also think of it as a Bo7 and just run a Bo7 diminished scale:

b----------11-
g-----10-12---
d-8-11--------

Did you actually try my suggestion?
Do your ears disagree or your brain?

 #32930  by GratefulPat
 Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:57 pm
play the solo in Bb

 #33346  by astroman99
 Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:34 am
astroman99 wrote:I would say pick from the following notes, minor thirds starting with the E, so E-G-Bb-C#-E, don't play bass though, but if that is the chord, those should be the right notes to play off of!
I had a chance to play the song in C, and I originaly posted the wrong Chord, it should consist of Eb, F#, A, C,
I hope that helps, it is the same dimished chord in Love In The Afternnon, mgood luck...enjoy
 #98689  by Emoto
 Sat May 28, 2011 9:36 am
Wait, Bb? Is there a different set of chords people are using than the ones in the tab posted here?
 #98694  by strumminsix
 Sat May 28, 2011 11:01 am
Emoto wrote:Wait, Bb? Is there a different set of chords people are using than the ones in the tab posted here?
Yes, the right ones :) see other threads here in this sub-folder. The song is in Bb, the GD never did it in C.
 #98698  by Emoto
 Sat May 28, 2011 1:17 pm
strumminsix wrote:
Emoto wrote:Wait, Bb? Is there a different set of chords people are using than the ones in the tab posted here?
Yes, the right ones :) see other threads here in this sub-folder. The song is in Bb, the GD never did it in C.
Thanks. I've been playing it lately and using C and damn is that high to sing.