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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #5862  by sarraqum
 Wed May 31, 2006 11:16 am
I am gonna go as far as saying the following: "I like it".

There. I don't see anything particularly wrong with it, ok so its no Estimated Prophet or Music Never Stopped but then again, its no Money Money either, is it? I tell you what it is though, its a sweet few minutes of 80s infused rock.

Why do you guys despise this song so much?

 #5864  by tigerstrat
 Wed May 31, 2006 11:46 am
I don't despise it... who despises it?

Probably the most psychedelic GD tune since Terrapin/Estimated.

If anything it was it's usual placement at the crucial start of set II that would be sometimes a letdown if you had been rooting HARD for a S>F or C>R- but so would a LOT of songs, if you stuck them in the II opener. I did sort of prefer it in the 1st set, like they often did the first couple of years they played it.

9/6/91 is pretty intense, as is 7/19/89, and during the version on 3/21/90 (as my friend that evening said,) "the Earth devoured itself!"

 #5868  by strumminsix
 Wed May 31, 2006 12:02 pm
My position is chaning on it. A friend sent me a super hot show with it and I'm lovin' it for the first time.

However, I still can't figure out the proper rhythm progressions for walking up.

 #6445  by nedcat
 Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:56 pm
Save this one for "Ratdog"OK? Not a single infocell of inspiration and Bobby (In my opinion, and I hope nobody is offended by my opinion) could get a rebate on his song....I will refund him five cents.
 #95597  by HighMagic
 Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:11 pm
I love this song.

Bobby was just as much an integral part of the band as was Jery, Phil, Bill, or anybody else - and I like his stuff.

It wouldn't have been the Grateful Dead without Bobby either.

Cheers.
 #95609  by jdsmodulus
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:05 am
I always liked Victim. I guess that it being a long dark song...like so many they played, and the general vibe of starting the second set with a classic danceable song, folks would hear it being tuned up and let down that they didnt get their Shakedown or Help on the Way. I also think that there is a negative vibe in that song towards certain things and that took away from the facade of all things are just fine.
 #95614  by bodiddley
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:31 am
I love the tune. Although it was always kind of a buzzkill live, as said above, especially when it opened a set and you were hoping for something else. One of the few GD tunes I enjoy listening to recordings of more.
 #95619  by strumminsix
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:54 am
Welcome, dude!

I love it! Done right, however, requires a strong ascension as it provides that dichotomy.

The main chords being sus2 strummed darkly and the ascends being majors which are brighter.

Then in the chorus (horns of the dilemma) goes from a major to diminished further expression the dichotomy.

Hence, with all these dichotomies, it's called Victim or the Crime which in many cases it sounds like the protagonist is both! Yet the final dichotomy (or & both)
 #95658  by Kaifusha
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:59 pm
Word to HighMagic's comment! One of my favorite Dead bumper stickers was "Bobby fans are people too." :lol:
This song can be so deliciously evil and dissonant sounding. I think I really got turned onto this one at Deer Creek, whatever year they had to cancel the 2nd show of their run their because of the unfortunate craziness of the first night. Many people stayed at the campground that 2nd night because we had nowhere to go except the next shows in Chicago. Some classy camper had a big PA system and a great recording of the previous night's show, and so a whole crowd of us listened and danced the night away to the show we had just heard the night before. One of those nights, and I remember especially enjoying the evilness of Victim. :hail: :twisted:
 #95660  by Gr8fulGreg
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:04 pm
I love the song... I remember reading somewhere how brent hated it and jerry never really liked it... jerry apparently said to bob "i dont give a fuck what you play" there's also a great scarlet>victim>fire i wish i knew the year id post it... its on archive somewhere... just gotta poke around
 #95661  by bodiddley
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:41 pm
Gr8fulGreg wrote:I love the song... I remember reading somewhere how brent hated it and jerry never really liked it... jerry apparently said to bob "i dont give a fuck what you play" there's also a great scarlet>victim>fire i wish i knew the year id post it... its on archive somewhere... just gotta poke around
I believe it's the Spring or Summer of '91. I know Hornsby is the one that steers the jam into Victim. Love that version.

I really dug it when Foolish Heart would bubble up out of the apocalyptic meltdown at the end of Victim.
 #95665  by JonnyBoy
 Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:50 pm
I don't think Jerry or Brent hated it music wise, although I have no idea they're actual itemized song preference or rankings. I think they were unintentionally caught up in the politics of talking about a "Junkie", which neither particularly liked to be in the middle of, it was just a political issue of PR guys saying they shouldn't play the song with all the active Junkies in the band standing there embarrassed, especially JG. I know Brent was on the change the lyric train, but didn't hate the song particularly. From what Barlow said, Jerry said something like that like you said, but was referring to the lyrics when he said I don't give a fuck (what you sing) meaning the word junkie doesn't bother him. Rather than saying "time ran out on the bunny", which was bobs silly attempt at making light of the whole ordeal, junkie fit the theme a bit closer. Jerry was a junkie, but they all were drug users, just because a doctor or liquor store gives them to you rather than a dealer it doesn't mean they are safe or not drugs. Its all kinda silly to me.