Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #87644  by hogan
 Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:02 pm
TI4-1009 wrote:Um, River Rat- with all due respect, you do know who you're arguing with, right???

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but w/ all due respect, there are no made men on the internet.
 #87650  by strumminsix
 Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:15 am
LOL, yes! Totally, agree. You've outlined the time tested and proven scientific process and I very much agree with that course of action. Thanks, RR!
 #87657  by waldo041
 Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:14 am
RiverRat wrote: The fallacy in the conclusion is that star grounding has an effect on the result. As a couple other people have pointed out, the shield and the ground bus act together and create a mesh topology. This invalidates the hypothesis, since the star is no longer a star.
if the shield provides a functions of shielding out electomagnetic radiation, and is wired directly to the output jacks ground lug directly or indirectly, it is not a mesh ground as it is solid and used for shielding purposes, not grounding purposes. if i understand correctly then you are saying that you can use the shield to ground signal ground wiring, and i agree it can be done, but has been proven to induce noise due to the ground loops it creates when other signal grounds within the circuit are grounded directly at the output jack ground lug.

if all the signal wires are wired directly to one singular point and then wired directly to the same output jack ground lug, that is also not a mesh wiring scheme. again, theoretically you could use the shield as a ground point, but then you are adding a function to the shield it is not intended to be used for. yes, it is grounded but it is not used for grounding. wiring the signal grounds individually to the shield could be construed as a "Mesh Topology", but if done this way can come at a cost.

i understand that the pot casings and switches will touch the shield installed, but that is the outer casings, they are isolated internally away from the shield or their shields(cases). so their signal grounds do not see this grounded connection and become part of this shielding action the shield provides, and that can be construed as a "Mesh Topology". but again, this is shielding and not grounding. even though the shield needs to be grounded to perform it's action, their signal leads are isolated and should be led to a point(star) or buss out the output jacks ground lug. this is another action that does work as it keeps the signal path true to one point and does not allow for a second path to ground.

so, if the 2 are providing 2 seperate functions or actions and are both wired to a singular point ground point or only one path to ground, then how does it create a "Mesh Topology"? the shield provides an action just as all the other components with signal grounds within the circuit perform an action of the circuit. and are all grounded at one singular point. if this is true, isn't that singular point a "Star" or Buss that all the signal grounds AND the shield lead to?

just trying to understand your hypothesis.

 #87678  by TI4-1009
 Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:39 pm
Great stuff! The last three posts have us back on the high road- thanks guys, I'm learning a lot.
 #87810  by gdrfk1990
 Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:49 am
does anyone have a diagram of how this is properly done ? This thread has me confused ??? If you use carban paint does that have to be grounded ???
 #87811  by strumminsix
 Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:36 am
philsaam wrote:---Achems Razor ---- means ...RICK , you win !
Occam's razor states, "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" which can only be attributed to Waldo who has realized the issue is based on terminology and the interaction between 2 technologies.

 #87812  by philsaam
 Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:45 am
Last edited by philsaam on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
 #87817  by strumminsix
 Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:56 am
philsaam wrote:BINGO ------strummin six --------youre the man !!!!!!!!!!! much love !!!! P
:peas: back to you brother, Phil!
 #87821  by JonnyBoy
 Sat Oct 09, 2010 12:30 pm
Rick Turner wrote:
I have found that too many of the more electric forums seem to attract people whose social skills are about like that of a spoiled and pissed-off five year old. It's like this over at the Pickup Makers' forum as well. Under these circumstances, I'm much better off staying silent and keeping my knowledge well to myself and just using what I know in the service of my clients.
Some of that is mud slinging, but the part I don't like is the end. Vindicated or not I don't think we will see Rick around here in the future. Something went horribly wrong and damage control is not gonna fix it. Shit happens though. :cry:

PS. I don't care about being flamed for this, but if one has the feeling like,"Ill talk to who ever I want the way I want" mentality, especially to people with historical significance important to this SITE and the grateful dead(important to you or not) you should not speak for everyone here by saying no one cares who you are. I disagree with this being "Just the internet". It is a GRATEFUL DEAD SITE. This site is hoping to gather these people from history to have them share their information, dispel myth from fact and in general help those that may not have the skills otherwise. I have deleted this a few times only to rewrite it thinking those few here that feel they can put others in their place would jump on doing that to me, but whatever man go ahead. That should be a moderators job anyway, and to have that happen by the lay folk only keeps people silent an afraid to say what they want, much like a "Made" situation we talked about in this thread. If grateful dead history is not important to you then being a part of a basic gear forum is ideal for those ideals. Pushing that here is, ironic or maybe eve moronic.
I know RR is a good person and willing to help always in the past. I am sure RT is too, but we have to realize what is at stake for everyone else that subscribes to this site and its ideals. It is here for all of us, and all of us have an effect on how it proceeds or fails.

there i feel better, proceed. :-)
 #87846  by philsaam
 Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:22 am
Last edited by philsaam on Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:53 am, edited 5 times in total.
 #87870  by brutusbuck45
 Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:27 pm
Phil Saam... This is, by far, the wrong thread for this... but I thought one that you might see (if you don't check PM's). If you please, can you tell me more about "The Trident"?!? I am oh so intrigued. I read a HUGE blog on its history and even saw that you commented on it (as well as the Bear, himself). I am assuming you were part of its HEYDAY. If you want to post to a new thread or PM me, I would love to hear more insider history. INCIDENTALLY, I am degree'd in History from SUNY at Potsdam, NY and eat this stuff up. I currently live in FL but spent the last week in SF and Napa and stopped in Sausalito on our way through. We had lunch on the waterfront. It was my first trip to the Bay Area- but certainly not my last. I appreciate your candor and firsthand thoughts on what was and what IS.


 #87877  by jkstraw
 Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:23 pm
Wow just caught up on this. Dead music forum - we have RT posting multiple times for like 3 days straight and then poof gone :? What a shame....hope none of the boys ever join to talk music theory :shock:
 #87885  by philsaam
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:36 am
HEY BRUTUS -----take whats in your heart bro and live in the moment ----dont chase rainbows -----make them -----just be yourself and you will find everything your looking for --