rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #41289  by bucketorain
 Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:23 pm
i'm trying to figure out the riff jerry does when there are jamming during the other one...it's the riff that sounds sort of, backwards / spacey.

sort of sounds out of tune backwards spacey. I know you know the riff i'm talking about...

thanks!

 #41295  by razmablues
 Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:15 pm
i think i might know what you're talking about. try busting out licks with E Dorian and hit the flatenned 6ths (Bb). the flat 6th really adds that spacey minor other one vibe.

 #41299  by Shooster
 Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:44 pm
razmablues wrote:i think i might know what you're talking about. try busting out licks with E Dorian and hit the flatenned 6ths (Bb). the flat 6th really adds that spacey minor other one vibe.
I'm having some trouble with this... I have minor modal understanding, but isn't Mixolydian the scale with the flattened 6th? Also , I'm not seeing a Bb in the scale (i'm looking in the guitar tab).

 #41302  by Rev_Roach
 Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:06 pm
Bucket, im not sure what you mean. Is this lick played during a part when they are rockin kind of hard or a spacier, slower, part more along the lines of 13 or 14 minutes into Skullfuck's version? Or during jams into the song (pre-vocal)?

About the theory question

Mixolydian has a flatted 7, not 6.

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 (like Dorian, but with b6)

Ramza, I guess you are saying he should play both b6 and 5 (C and C#)?

 #41304  by razmablues
 Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:43 pm
sorry for the confusion.

yes i did mean E Dorian, and as far as the flat 6 goes; the B is the 6th, which is IN the scale, but i hear jerry toggling the B but also the A#(Bb). My theory isn't too strong and i think what threw people off is me saying E dorian, but then refering to 6th from the ionian point of view (Dmaj) rather than the Dorian point of view.

but yeah long story short, E dorian, B is in the scale, hit the Bb's as well

sorry for the confusion everyone :smile:

here's a small lick to show my point:
Code: Select all
E|---------------------------------------
B|------------------11h12p11------11h12--
G|------11--12--14------------14---------
D|--14-----------------------------------
A|---------------------------------------
E|---------------------------------------

 #41312  by bucketorain
 Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:37 am
Rev_Roach wrote:Bucket, im not sure what you mean. Is this lick played during a part when they are rockin kind of hard or a spacier, slower, part more along the lines of 13 or 14 minutes into Skullfuck's version? Or during jams into the song (pre-vocal)?

About the theory question

Mixolydian has a flatted 7, not 6.

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 (like Dorian, but with b6)

Ramza, I guess you are saying he should play both b6 and 5 (C and C#)?
its during the slower parts...it's the riff that sort of sounds backwards...
 #56668  by runninaground
 Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:52 am
E|------------------------------12------------|------------------------------12--12--|--
B|--15--15--14--14--15--15------15--14--|--15--15--14--14--15--15----------|--
G|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
D|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
A|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
E|--------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------|-- Maybe?
 #56818  by runninaground
 Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:29 pm
E|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
B|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
G|---------------------11--12--11--|--------------------------11--14--12--
D|--14--14--12--14-----------------|--12--14--14--12--14--------------
A|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
E|------------------------------------|----------------------------------

Also, this is what i hear starting at 13:41 on the 9/3/72 version (dick's picks 36) i think
 #56822  by tigerstrat
 Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:58 pm
What do you mean by "slower parts"?

In the opening post I thought I knew what you were talking about, that mad (could be described as backward sounding or inside-out) lick that Garcia frequently did almost as an audible cue to go into the common lick before the 2nd verse... but that part is anything but slow, it's more like the very summit of the jam.

Only slow part I know is Cryptical.
 #58262  by Billbbill
 Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:53 pm
how' about this here one...it's the one I'd think of when thinking of backwards, if I happened to be thinking of what a backward lick might sound like. Does that qualify as convoluted????

b--------------------------------------------------------12
g------------12b-----------12b-----------12--12-14-12-14
d------12-14---------12-14----------12-14--14---
a---14------------14-------------14---

Those are just slight bends - to give it a little gnarl :twisted: