rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #50788  by pappypgh
 Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:23 pm
ickyfoot -

It's an E7. No doubt about it - not a G#+...I assure you. The rest of your stuff looks pretty accurate, at a first glance, tho!

That G#+ sounds nice - but it ain't right. :roll:
 #50791  by ickyfoot
 Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:26 pm
Played along with Reckoning this morning a bunch of times, and it sounds like a pretty standard 1/2 step walk up, a la jazz. Meshed nicely when I played along.

I'll play along again tomorrow with the E7 (which does fit, just doesn't sound like that's what's being played on Reckoning).

Hrm

 #50793  by ickyfoot
 Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:00 pm
OK, maybe you're right ;).

 #50795  by jonarobb
 Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:22 pm
You'll notice on most if not all of the versions that are in C, Phil, with his infinate knowlegde of passing tones, etc..., he will often play the single notes of C, G#, A in that swing structure. It's common with Phil to lay off the root and play one of the other chord tones in key spots. That the real flavor of his playing...

G# is the third of E7 so it works as a single note but not as a triad...

Weir, Garcia and Mydland(Godchaux) all play C, E7, Am....

 #50809  by strumminsix
 Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:57 am
jonarobb wrote:You'll notice on most if not all of the versions that are in C, Phil, with his infinate knowlegde of passing tones, etc..., he will often play the single notes of C, G#, A in that swing structure. It's common with Phil to lay off the root and play one of the other chord tones in key spots. That the real flavor of his playing...

G# is the third of E7 so it works as a single note but not as a triad...

Weir, Garcia and Mydland(Godchaux) all play C, E7, Am....
same thing i hear but so much more eloquently posted :P
 #89136  by ickyfoot
 Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:13 pm
OK, getting back to this after a real long time ;)

I guess the reasons why I think it's G#+ are because a) it sounds like there is a very clear walk up from C to Am, with the G#+ working perfectly as a passing chord, b) I don't hear the counterpuntal walkdown of (c) > (b) > (a) that would be present within each respective chord if you were to play C, E7, Am in that passage, and c) the 3 of G# (C) doesn't sound off over that chord. If it were an E7, that C should sound off as you play along. The last point is a pretty minor point, though, because E7 sounds OK, and by the reasoning of the third point, it should sound off to some extent if the band is playing G#+ there.

So, imo, either they are playing G#+ or they are leaving out a note (C in the case of G#+ or B in the case of E7), thus leaving it ambiguous (which certainly isn't beyond them ;))!

In the end, retaining the C and E notes on the G and B strings, respectively, as you move from C through G#+ to A just sounds the most like what's happening on Reckoning.

Also, like Phil, Weir is definitely prone to and quite capable of using substitutions and bizarre voicings. If Phil plays a G# as a passing tone there, it frees Weir up to play either a C *or* a B in the corresponding passing *chord* as he pleases. That kind of harmonic ambiguity is why they were able to keep so many jams so interesting.
 #89305  by waldo041
 Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:59 pm
C E7 Am

case closed. :lol:

Check it at 2:00



peace,
waldo
 #89306  by ebick
 Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:14 pm
waldo041 wrote:C E7 Am

case closed. :lol:

Check it at 2:00



peace,
waldo
Who wears short shorts....we wear short shorts.....if you dare wear short shorts, Nair for short shorts......
 #89307  by waldo041
 Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:16 pm
and again here at 2:37



peace,
waldo
 #89322  by jeffm725
 Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:59 am
I cant tell you for how long that I and we used to screw it up! now I have a simple way of remebering:

first 2 times around:
C> Bb > F (although jerry sometimes walked up to the F from the C with single notes so you wouldnt hear him actually fret the Bb, but the Bb is the structure for the rest of the band)

Next 2 times (3 and 4):
C > E7 > Amin

5th time (same as one and 2)
C> Bb > F

6th time (same as 3 and 4)
C>E7> Amin

Now this is how I remember it:

2 -2 -1-1
 #89328  by jeffm725
 Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:56 am
oops I should have mentioned that the structure is for sung parts only....

dont count the turnarounds in the solo.....every solo turnaround no matter how many times you go around is c>Bb>f