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A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #43169  by Stevo123
 Mon May 05, 2008 1:42 pm
I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this song, there's really a lot going on metrically. Can anyone give advice on the best way to count this song, what beats the chord changes happen on, etc?

 #43170  by 1960strat
 Mon May 05, 2008 1:44 pm
I have heard bobby count it out.. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 then right in.

 #43172  by Tennessee Jedi
 Mon May 05, 2008 1:53 pm
Try
1 - 2 - 3 - 4
1 - 2 - 3
then
1 - 2 - 3
1 - 2 - 3 - 4
I like ending the riff w/the 1/2/3/4 count..
Also avoid 2 syllable words like Seven as your brain sees that as 2 beats.
If counting aint your thing ( sure aint mine)latch on to a band member that has the part down.
I noticed my bass guys riff "counts" for me very well.
Good luck
:cool:

 #43173  by Tennessee Jedi
 Mon May 05, 2008 2:04 pm
I also like Terrapin Station for learning Estimated.
For the verses, its all about finding the one beat.
I try to just hit on the one and let the rest of the band fill in the riff while in the verse.
Its alot harder when you are trying it without the album.....
Someday a Bridge video will appear......
I hope...

 #43174  by sarraqum
 Mon May 05, 2008 3:02 pm
I too have a recording of Bobby counting from 1 to 7

----(count 1 to 7)----
My time coming, anyday,

----(count 1 to 7)----
don't worry about me, no

Thats the best I can explain.....

 #43179  by Pete B.
 Mon May 05, 2008 4:01 pm
This is a good one (of course)!
My first reccomendation is to get a drum machine, looper, metronome or whatever... that you can punch 7/4 time into, and play along with it for a long time. This was a huge help for me.

Speaking of the studio Estimated on Terrups...
You'll notice that the first beat is actually a drum beat, then the Jerry Mutron lick starts on the next beat.

The way I count it is this...
The first beat is an "&" (the word "and") and it gets the accent...followed by a 6 count (the Jerry Gar MuTron lick starts on the "1").
& 1 2 3 4 5 6
& 1 2 3 4 5 6

fwiw, The word "seven" doesn't work well for counting time (for me) because it is a two syllable word.

 #43201  by wisedyes
 Tue May 06, 2008 6:03 am
I'm with Tennessee Jedi - 1-2-3-4 1-2-3, rinse and repeat.

 #43202  by spilly
 Tue May 06, 2008 6:04 am
my brothers a percussionist, I deal with this shit all the time

I'd definatly count to seven, we call "Sev" to avoid the double syllable. your accent's are on the 1,3,and 5. 6 and 7 are both down beat's

a good way to practice this type of timing is to clap the upbeats and stomp the down beats. it'll help imbed the timing in your gourd.
c=clap s=stomp

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
c - s - c - s - c - s - s

this is how I got comfatable with off time.

you can also try changing the accent pattern from 1,3,5 to 2,4,6 but this is a little harder

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
s - c - s - c - s - c - s

it's neat

 #43238  by bucketorain
 Tue May 06, 2008 9:48 am
doesn't it change to 4/4 when they start in on "California" ?

 #43239  by Pete B.
 Tue May 06, 2008 9:55 am
No, it's 7/4 the whole way through.
The "For" of Cali-FOR-nia is the 1 (of the 1st 7 count).
"Bur" of Bur-nin' Shores, is the 1 of the second 7 count.
Sing it while counting it out on your fingers.

 #43240  by Tennessee Jedi
 Tue May 06, 2008 10:00 am
Mu-Tron ! Mu-Tron ! Mu-Tron !
Video ?
Maybe someday ?
Would live to have Pete B.s take on the bridge..

:smile:

 #43243  by Pete B.
 Tue May 06, 2008 10:50 am
Sorry TJ!
'Been a bit side-tracked on the vids lately.
I want to do this one.
I'll try to 'nock it out this week.
~pb

 #43244  by Tennessee Jedi
 Tue May 06, 2008 11:12 am
I know its a pain Pete.B
Just the fact you said you would get to it is good enough for me...
When you get the spare time.
Your vids are great for licks and in video quality.
Very cool and helpful...
Thanks
:cool: