[betteroffdeadnc]

Tigerstrat,
Great stuff!! I didn't realize that Jerry was using the tube McIntosh amps until he apparently wanted more power and went with the 2300s. fascinating, thanks.

-s

[betteroffdeadnc]

Just ran across this. It looks real well made. Sorry if this post doesn't belong here. I wasn't sure but thought that you might like to see it. I particuraly like how the did the rear of the cabinet.

-s

[paulinnc]

Hey Betteroffdead,

Do you do the jamband meet ups in Raliegh? I am a mmember of that group but have yet to make one of the jams. Between work and school I am pretty busy, but starting mid January I will have Fridays off again so hopefully I will be able to make at least one a month. I am not a very good player yet but that is why I want to go. To learn, meet other people into the same sort of stuff I am. I think it is cool that you actually started a band out of it.

[betteroffdeadnc]

Hey Paul. I haven't been there lately because between rehearsals and gigs with BOD most of my playing time has been taken. Its a really great opportunity to play with a lot of different people with varying skill levels and musical preferences who are all there to have fun playing. Its easy to learn a lot from everyone, and teach a lot at the same time. They get $10 to cover costs for 3 hours of playing using their amps and PAs. They even have drums for drummers so that they don't have to bring them. The other guitarist in BOD owns the place and has stocked it with a very nice selection of Fender and Mesa amps for guitarists, and the rooms sound great.

Let me know when you get time to go to one and I'll see if I can meet you there.

Steve

[tigerstrat]

Tigerstrat,
Great stuff!! I didn't realize that Jerry was using the tube McIntosh amps until he apparently wanted more power and went with the 2300s. fascinating, thanks.

-s

BoD, not sure at all but I think the MC2300's might have been introduced by McIntosh in 72. In early 1973(prior to 2/9/73), not just Jerry but the entire GD sound system was converted to MC2300's.

[paulinnc]

Hey Paul. I haven't been there lately because between rehearsals and gigs with BOD most of my playing time has been taken. Its a really great opportunity to play with a lot of different people with varying skill levels and musical preferences who are all there to have fun playing. Its easy to learn a lot from everyone, and teach a lot at the same time. They get $10 to cover costs for 3 hours of playing using their amps and PAs. They even have drums for drummers so that they don't have to bring them. The other guitarist in BOD owns the place and has stocked it with a very nice selection of Fender and Mesa amps for guitarists, and the rooms sound great.

Let me know when you get time to go to one and I'll see if I can meet you there.

Steve

Awesome!!! IT will be at least mid January, my goal is to make 1 session a month.

[betteroffdeadnc]

I also know what transistors do when pushed hard, and its not pretty. Fact is they just don't make tube amps with as much power as they do transistor amps. Its a matter of the physics and mechanics. They get too large and unmanageble not to mention too hard to maintain. Watt for watt a tube amp can sound as clean and tight as a transistor amp if that's what its designed to do. Listen to the old tube McIntosh tube amps. Its just that after you hit about 6 output tubes its a fire breathing monster and a transistor amp will be half the size and weight, and more reliable due to increased effeciency. Jerry also started to rely much more on effects for his sound than on the sound of his poweramps. It was actually a "lack of sound" that the McIntoshes contributed, just volume.

[unk0wndarkstar]

Fender Twin Reverb

[jenkins]

He was definetly runnign this configuration so he could pusdh the tone of the blackface through all of his speakers without distorting it. and it worked great, his otne was always perfect.
It is obvious that jerry used this configuration because of the quality of the tone he was getting.

I seriously doubt that how much the amps wieghed, their reliabilitiy, changing the tubes, or the resale value mattered at all. These are things that people who play in bars consider.

They were the grateful dead playing huge shows. He always had backups of everything ready to go, so reliability shouldn't matter. He had roadies to carry his equiptment, and he wasn't selling his old gear. He was either keeping it or woud give away a lot of it.
I cant see the weight or resae value coming up in jerry's mind when considering amps

[tigerstrat]

I seriously doubt that how much the amps wieghed, their reliabilitiy, changing the tubes, or the resale value mattered at all. These are things that people who play in bars consider.

They were the grateful dead playing huge shows. He always had backups of everything ready to go, so reliability shouldn't matter. He had roadies to carry his equiptment, and he wasn't selling his old gear. He was either keeping it or woud give away a lot of it.
I cant see the weight or resae value coming up in jerry's mind when considering amps

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous to me. Reliability ALWAYS matters. Or do you want to be in the middle of a two hour set with failing, farting equipment? You don't think that's a traumatic interruption no matter if there is a backup somewhere, which will take several minutes to replace? You are right they WERE the GD, playing huge shows- all the more reason to pick the best gear that won't go tits up in the middle of Bird Song, or start sounding funny somewhere in the middle of a tour because a set of power tubes is moving through the natural arc of their lifespan.

[jenkins]

your right tigerstrat reliablity does matter. They certainly did not use any shitty amps.
What i was trying to say (maybe didnt do it very well) was that he had techs to do all the maintanence needed and he had backups ready to go if somethng shit the bed.

So at that point reliability is obviously still important but not much of a factor when trying to make your tone perfect.

Would seem to me that getting two of everthing and haveing it ready to go at a minutes notice(which jerry had for his amps and power amps) pretty much solves the problem of reliablity.

And when you read interviews with the jerry and the roadies it seems like their equiptment was constanly being repaired and maintained.

would u agree that tone was more important to him than reliability?

U are right, it doesn't matter how great something sounds if it shits the bed in the middle of a set.

That is something I worry about because I cant afford to buy 2 of everything.

[tigerstrat]

would u agree that tone was more important to him than reliability?

I would think it was at least equal, but the thing with power amps in particular is that at a fairly early point I believe he... really THEY (Healy, Bear, Garcia etc) decided they wanted absolutely no coloration of tone from the power amps, and as much as possible from the guitar itself. The MC3500's were tube and 350w mono and 125lb. McIntosh discontinued making them right after JG and the Dead got several of them in 1972, so they started buying the new model- the MC2300 which was the same size and weight but 2x300w or 600w bridged solidstate- nearly twice the punch per pop!

[Chuckles]

Just revisiting this and other power amp threads, as I'm thinking of going to a rack unit with either the Alembic or Trio pre into some SS power amp.

So, my quesiton is, are the earlier McIntosh tube power amps (3500.. or the earlier lower powered units they used) that much cleaner than the 6L6 end of a Twin... or is it just a question of more power?

[Jon S.]

As a fan of really cheap fixes that cost little and sound good, an overlooked option for folks who want a bit more of the Jerry tone from what you already own is to actually lower the power tube bias a bit from its optimal level. Try it sometime, see what you think of its impact on your amp's edge/smoothness and dynamic range - you might be surprised at what you hear.

[bucketorain]

As a fan of really cheap fixes that cost little and sound good, an overlooked option for folks who want a bit more of the Jerry tone from what you already own is to actually lower the power tube bias a bit from its optimal level. Try it sometime, see what you think of its impact on your amp's edge/smoothness and dynamic range - you might be surprised at what you hear.

could you explain that a bit further please?