Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #1658  by jhc
 Thu May 12, 2005 2:32 pm
Great stuff man!

 #1669  by jhc
 Wed May 18, 2005 5:12 pm
Hey Kenny, this is good stuff.

I have a question about the chords Bob uses in Dark Star... using some pretty standard chords for A Mixolydian (A, G, Em, D, F#m) sounds pretty good, but still not quite as jazzy as Bob gets, esp. when listening to an early 70's Dark Star. I've tried adding 9ths and 11ths, keeping the notes of the chords compatible with A Mixolydian, but it didn' sound "right".

Do you have any specific exmaples? Should I be trying to find maj7, maj9, and/or maj11's rather than dominant chords?

 #1675  by jhc
 Thu May 19, 2005 12:12 pm

Though I thought the main progression is A -> G, no?
 #2000  by jamjax
 Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:02 am
Under the Chord Substitution Header, Kenny stated that Bob plays Dark Star with an A chord and a D/A chord.

Now i (as well as others ) thought it was and an A and a G chord.

Can anyone explain this D/A chord. G seems to work. I use fragments of the cord descending to a F# note myself.

Please help me on this one. If it wasn't a typo it may solve a improv block on the song that i have.


 #2030  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:03 pm
Ok, I think i get it. The second voicing of D/A is what I use. I guess i just thought of it as a G fragment.

I'm still a little confused though. Now this would make the song in the Key of A right. Or would it be A mix.

Not sure if that question is important. But i want to try to understand how to build rhythm lines out of the fragments of the chords. I'm going to see if i can organise my thoughts a little more clearly so my questions are better. Thanks.

 #2031  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:10 pm

"the Doctor was played by Larry Bagely"

Now that is really weird. Didn't Robbert Plant say that on a Seattle 77 bootleg??

That is soooooo strange. We used to say that all the time. yet i never new it's relevance.
You freak me out Kenny!!!

 #2032  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:54 pm
"Adding single note lines to build up A to A9 then the
A suspended chord is necessary but not overdone."

Let me see if i understand this.

You mention that the voicings would be less full when played (in the song context)

I guess this means that you would only use from four to two strings to make the fragements and inversions.

so... maybe i could play chords like this....


... let's call it a A9 (as i'm including the B note on the thrid string)

and chords like....


and Asus4..... to lead off of the A chord.

and land on the D/A.

how bout using D9ths and Dsus4's off of the D/A chord? I guess that would work as well, eh?

 #2035  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:42 pm
Don't you hold the D/A for as long as the A? I bar of four beats???

brb, gotta listen to a version..

 #2036  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 3:46 pm
or is it A / / / / / D /

It almost sounds like Bob is breaking it up sometimes...?

 #2038  by jamjax
 Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:31 pm
Ok i got it now.

The chord rhythm is A A9 Asus D/A (just like you told me)

The A chord is basically


The A9 is made up of the B note and the G


the Asus is made up of the G and the D


and the D/A is made up of the D note, F# and the A


Cripes! That is what i always played. I just thought of them as G fragments. Boy this is good. I think it's going to open up alot more possibilities for me. Now if I can only figure out that outro.....


 #2044  by strumminsix
 Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:22 am
Kenny, thanks for all you writing here and everywhere else in our little haven!

I've approached rhythm with special regards to voicing(tone, progression & timbre) then transitions(relative minors, suspensions & walks).

[b]Tone [/b]would be where it occurs think E form vs. D form
[b]Progression [/b]knowing what forms make what sounds like a C form sounds 1 3 5 1 3 vs E form which sounds 1 5 1 3 5 1
[b]Timbre [/b]is subjective and based on the combo of the 2 above

So if I am playing a progression that looks like E F# C#m E which is melodic, I would play it all of the 4th fret. If it were a bit rocking, I'd play off the 7th, 2nd, 4th, 7th respectively.

When I think of changes like I IV - I usually add in a sus4 to the I or jump up to the II which is the relative minor of the IV.

This works very well for me, tonally I am happy with it, my band (which has another guitarist and keyboardist) are all happy with it so I don't want to get too far from this.

But what are some things you'd recommend me to try out to add on from here and bring in some new dynamics?


 #2129  by strumminsix
 Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:28 am
Thanks for the awesome and thoughtful reply, Kenny.
Sorry it took so long to acknowlege what you wrote.

Yes, I did mean minor. I just learned notation.
For those that don't know:
Upper-case Roman numberals mean major I IV V
Lower-case Romans mean minor ii iii vi
The degree sign (which my keyborad doesn't have) is diminished.

I absolutely love the Dim7 trick. A guy who I am waiting to start taking lessons from showed me that trick 2 weeks back I've been busting my hump on it with great sucess!

You rock, Kenny!
 #2745  by jck_strw
 Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:10 pm
Kenny wrote:<<<<<<<<<Chachi set Arnold's on fire>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No way. It's my long held belief that the fire was started by Potsie, but carefully orchestrated to pin the blame on Chachi. See my theory is that Potsie was smoking doobers in the back while covering for Chachi (who had a date with the Polaskey twins [unbeknownst to Fonzie]). But (and here's where it gets tricky), the only reason the Polaskey twins went out with Chachi was because Potsie had some incriminating photos of them and the Malachi Brothers and bribed the twins to go out with Chachi. Once Chachi was out of Arnold's, Potsie went to work to try and ruin Chachi's reputation. The fire at Arnold's was only the first step in Potsie's plan, but I think Ralph Malph stepped in and cooler heads prevailed.

Well that's my theory anyway.

 #2798  by spilly
 Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:24 am
I disagree also. it's blatantly obvious that Arnold did it for insurance reasons and resolved to frame the problematic youngsters that frequented his dinner.