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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #139441  by Forgotten Space
 Fri May 30, 2014 8:09 pm
Guys, I am constantly told that I am too load, but when I hear the tapes, am barely audible in the mix (I know, the Bain of being Bobby or a Bobby player!) I am playing the typical bobby style and am not strumming away on barre chords. Let's have a discussion on techniques to cut through the mix! This forum has been slow lately (I am usually a lurker, but really respect all of your opinions!)

Jon
 #139444  by tcsned
 Fri May 30, 2014 8:44 pm
do you mic your amp? If so you may be having an issue between stage volume and the mix. Are you recording with mics in the room or direct from the board?
 #139446  by Forgotten Space
 Fri May 30, 2014 9:30 pm
It depends on the gig, but, I am convinced that I need to be louder than they think I need to be. If I was playing full chords all the time, the volume would be ok. But that is not the case, I have tried compression, which is ok. But, I seem to be fighting a full sound, and end up buried. When we record, it is a digital recorder in the room.
 #139451  by ugly rumor
 Sat May 31, 2014 12:24 am
Chances are that if you are being told that you are too loud, but not hearing yourself from a board recording, it is because the board is cutting you out to try to achieve balance. A room recording might give you a more accurate impression of what the sound was like to a listener.
 #139455  by Dozin
 Sat May 31, 2014 6:52 am
I'm curious what kind of guitar you use and what pickups?
 #139460  by tcsned
 Sat May 31, 2014 2:08 pm
If your bandmates are saying you're too loud and you are too quiet on board tapes then you are too loud and the sound guy doesn't need you in the mix to be heard in the room.

If your bandmates are saying you're too loud and you are quiet on an audience recording it may be amp placement, it could be an EQ issue with your sound that is harshness being mistaken for volume.

. . . or your bandmates need to lighten up :-)
 #139463  by tatittle
 Sat May 31, 2014 5:36 pm
Posting some recordings may help diagnose the issue or motivation. An important part of playing in a band is allowing space (both timing and frequency) for the other guys to find a niche etc. When guitars are playing on top of each other it can become garage mush easily, and too many folks are more in love with the idea and experience of playing than with the actual product IMO. It is very easy to get obsessed with what "I am playing" rather than how the overall song sounds or what the best way to compliment each other is.
 #139464  by Lephty
 Sat May 31, 2014 6:09 pm
I recently did a gig as "Bob" (for the first time, really) and felt like I wasn't cutting through either. It seemed to me that the tone I wanted (middle pickup setting for the most part) was a little thin, but if I switched to the neck pickup it was too strong. It helped to kick on my compressor, though I'm not sure if Bob uses compression. Curious what others have to say about this as well.

I've historically been more of a lead player but I really enjoyed hanging in the back and being part of the rhythm section (esp. w/ our friend Edwin on bass!).
 #139466  by Smolder
 Sat May 31, 2014 8:09 pm
So this is pretty subjective... if you set you tone levels while practicing alone, your bound to muddy the lower end of the mix and adjusting upwards in a band setting is mandatory. It could also be the projection of the speaker cabinet... stage volume does not equal FOH volume... and the board mix (monitor mix as well) is a whole different issue. You really need to specify how you're set up, how it's being recorded... and likely/maybe work on the relationship with the sound dude.
 #139468  by Dozin
 Sat May 31, 2014 9:27 pm
I'm thinking more along the lines with Lephty. The neck pickup is a little strong. It's too rich and bright. If this applies to you, try playing with just the bridge and middle pickup and find your tone using those two pickups. Eaton plays Cowboy with the neck pickup off the whole show. When I tried this with my band I sounded wAy better. I find the pocket easier and feel I can really connect with the band. The sustain is better too.

I seriously don't think I'll turn the neck pickup back on.

My .02
I think it's worth speaking up for at least,
give it a try ;)
 #139470  by Dozin
 Sat May 31, 2014 9:46 pm
See here

Image

What do you see?

I see a split bridge pickup and a middle pickup. The neck pickup is gone.

I might be cooked but I think I'm on to something.

ANd that's my 1000th post!

Cheers! :drink: