Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #139047  by tatittle
 Thu May 15, 2014 5:12 pm
I am wondering if anybody knows the true order of Garcia's effects when/if all/most of them were engaged. I imagine it changed to some extent, but in particular I am curious about the:

- distortion/overdrive,
- Phase 100,
- MuTron III,
- wah pedal,
- EQ's,
- octave pedals

I had been thinking that the order was: (buffer/blaster) -> Octave -> Mutron -> Overdrive -> EQ -> Phase 100 -> wah (?)
but comments from foremost authority Mr. Wald seem to suggest Garcia often drove the MuTron with the Dist+ before it.
Obviously various rigs/taste may lend themselves to different orders, I am wondering how Jerry tended to do it; and how certain folks are of the order (1st hand witness vs. personal testing).

Much obliged :P
 #139048  by Searing75
 Thu May 15, 2014 5:37 pm
I go Guitar with buffer, octave, mutron, dist+, OD1, OD2', Earth Drive, delay.

I know Jerry put the eq's after each boss overdrive when he used them.

Exact Jerry order? What time period?

 #139052  by waldo041
 Thu May 15, 2014 7:36 pm
The effects are inline;

top row from left to right 1 - 4
bottom row from left to right 5 - 8.

Here is some info on the effects and the order. Just to note, the MXR Script Distortion+ is not the same effect as the Series 2000 Distortion +.

By the end of 1979 what appears to be the Boss DS1 enters top shelf right after the MuOctDiv & Mu3. This could be the OD1, but imho, i am pretty sure it is the DS1.

By 1980 That Boss DS-1 gets moved from behind, to in front, of the MuOctDiv &Mu3 and stays there until sometime in 1982 when it leaves. Then the MXR Dist+ gets moved from the bottom shelf to the top before the Mutrons. No Dist/OD on bottom shelf, just Phase 100 and Analog Delay.

At the begining of 1983 the MXR Dist+ is moved back to the bottom shelf before the MXR Phase 100, briefly there is no Dist/OD on top shelf. But by the end of 83 the MXR Series 2000 Distortion + is placed before the Mutron's. The series 2000 stays there until around 1987ish.

The Boss HM2 arrives and replaces the MXR Series 2000 Dist+ sometime in 1987/88ish. but by 1989 the HM-2 was replaced with the Boss Turbo OverDrive OD-2 and the MXR Dist+ was replaced with the Boss OverDrive OD-1.

A Boss OC2 enters with the MuOctDiv in 1989 and eventually replaces it. And in 1992 the EQ's are added to each shelf after the OD's. The Crybaby Wah goes on the bottom shelf #5 position. The MXR Analog Delay is replaced by an ADA 2FX, also a TC2290 was in the rack from late 89 to 92. And an MXR Pitch Transposer is seen in the rack in the late eighties.

Here is a basic footprint of his effects order from 1979.


 #139057  by tatittle
 Thu May 15, 2014 11:56 pm
Great much obliged MW. I was hoping you would give me some insight. This is the 1st Ive heared of the 2000 MXR being used...I haven't had one of that line but they look really cheap; guess the sound is what matters. So it sounds like he had OD both before and after the Mutron for many of those years. Ill have to give pre-Mutron distortion another test I guess.
 #139061  by Searing75
 Fri May 16, 2014 4:41 am
The HM2that long???

The Series 2000???

Tom Foolery??!!?

 #139066  by waldo041
 Fri May 16, 2014 7:32 am
Searing75 wrote:The HM2that long???

The Series 2000???

Tom Foolery??!!?

Well, the photographic evidence is there and has been available for many years. Parish confirms it was indeed an HM-2. But I am sure these are not necessities I only point out the facts. Things such as the weight of the gear is more of a consideration these days rather then using the actual or gear closer to what he actually used when trying to get an "ish" of his tone. Just turn some knobs on any gear and be sure you can carry it all over your shoulder across town, because his technique in no way was affected by his tone anyway. In other words, his picking dynamics were not a learned skill from the loudness of his rig. You would pick the same way at low volumes as you do at high volumes, no? Same scenario with types or brands of effects, some react different, no? Anyway, he sounded like 83 GD Jerry on any and every thing he played, it is all in the fingers! :smile:

sorry rant over....

 #139075  by tatittle
 Fri May 16, 2014 2:49 pm
Indeed now that you mention the 2000 I can see it in some photos. I just never saw a clear shot of it before.
I would have to disagree on the rig affecting playing dynamics strongly though at least with myself. I play harder and different styles with looser distortion and lighter with cleaner setups. Guitars I change with too. I do it naturally to try and exploit the tone available as best I see/hear/feel fit, but alot of that is probably mimicking other guitarists/bands who had the specific tone. Garcia had a totally original style though so might not affect him as much. But for me, in terms of mimicking Garcia (or anybody) most of it is in note choice, timing, and technique just as you said...but I still find it unnatural to play Garcia type stuff through a Boogie lead channel e.g., Im just too spontaneous and unconsciously drift to other influences because of the tone.
 #139078  by waldo041
 Fri May 16, 2014 8:02 pm
“To work on picking dynamics, plug into a practice amp and turn your guitar all the way up. Then play arpeggios—very quietly at the beginning, and then gradually louder by adjusting your touch. The goal is to vary your dynamics, but not change the position of your hands. Many guitarists change the way they hold their hands when changing dynamics. As a result, they end up with a ‘light-touch’ group of licks—the very fast stuff—but they don’t develop any power. What you want to achieve is continually making those conversions back and forth from quiet to loud picking.” —Jerry Garcia
 #139096  by tatittle
 Sat May 17, 2014 6:47 pm
Maybe we're talking about different things. Im not referring to mere volume. I am talking about overpowering strong handed stuff that sounds terrific with distortion...SRV Hendrix type stuff, even Santana, but tends to sound thin and weak if not simple with a super clean Fender e.g. at volume 4. Garcia didn't really ever play that kind of style, some of the stuff in '69 comes close. He didn't seem to have a strong enough vibrato to pull that stuff off at the level of his eponymous styles. On the other hand more sophisticated and intricate melodic stuff that Jerry played so well can get lost in the mud of a dirty rig. Anyway, its academic and not terribly useful to ponder I imagine.
 #139097  by waldo041
 Sat May 17, 2014 7:00 pm

starting at 4:00

 #139104  by tatittle
 Sun May 18, 2014 12:54 am
LOL I just saw this Santana/Jerry vid like yesterday for the 1st time. Im not gonna get in an argument over Jerry's abilities...hes my favorite guitarist right now who continually amazes me. But it is because of his note selection not an inherent sexual like drive like some more "primitive" guitarists for lack of a better term. And the former is far more awe-inspiring to me, as the latter seems to be mostly something folks are born with.
Last edited by tatittle on Sun May 18, 2014 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #139105  by czyfingers
 Sun May 18, 2014 4:35 am
Waldo- you are a man of the facts and vast, amazing knowledge. I totally understand your frustration with some of the...lets say "trends" that are going on in our little world here. I enjoy your rants and get the message and wit that comes with all of them. With all of that said...I'd just like to take a moment to say thank you for all your hard work and research, all you've given and shared with us and encourage you by saying there are still some of us out here who aren't looking to dispute and argue about or with all the invaluable info an everything else you've given us. In a nutshell...I get it.
I'm starting to ramble.....just offering a big THANK YOU!

 #139106  by czyfingers
 Sun May 18, 2014 4:41 am
Maybe I should've started a new thread for that last post, but I said what I wanted to say and hopefully everyone reads it, thinks about it, and most importantly you see it Mike.
Thanks again brother
 #139112  by tatittle
 Sun May 18, 2014 12:54 pm
+1 on the joy and smiles Mr. Wald and his disciples have brought me, and dare I say others who only listen to music. The documentation can only be done accurately for a certain period of time before the sources dry up and move on; the initiative is inspiring and the altruistic sharing of the info will be a legacy that lives on and is consulted for years to come. Maybe it will be a foundation for a revolution against the American Idol culture that has dominated lately? :?: