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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #132325  by TeeJay
 Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:47 pm
I finally have an OBEL installed and I am only getting weak signal through the loop. The guitar works perfect with the OBEL in bypass. I have built waldos junction box and have a stereo cable with TRS 1/4 plugs. The box is pretty simple so I am a little lost in what I am doing wrong here. I swithched the send and return around thinking I mislabeled them and it was loud static noise. Any coaching would be greatly appreciated. :smile:
 #132335  by hippieguy1954
 Sun Sep 15, 2013 3:03 am
The OBEL is very simple. You can use the Tiger wiring diagram on waldo's site to see if it is wired correctly.
Who installed the OBEL and was it tested before you got it?
Also, some close up pics or a diagram of your wiring would help.
 #132344  by ccw3432
 Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:34 am
A couple things I'd look at.

Remove all you effects from the loop. Go out of the junction box and then right back in through the send and return jacks. This will let you know if the problem is in your effects chain. Check your effects loop chords. I would check all solder joints in the box you made and then in the guitar OBEL path. Make sure there are no bare wires out of place. I've had a similar volume drop issue when a jack tip terminal was shorting to ground. Are you experienced in soldering and were the solder joints done correctly. If not there are some good YouTube videos on good soldering techniques. Good luck. Let us know what you find.
 #132358  by jenkins
 Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:26 pm
Idk how easy of an option this is but you could also try a stereo Y cable thru your.effects or.even just a effect to tell if the problem is in your guitar's wiring or in your junction box wiring

How confident are you that the box is wired properly? Did you wire the OBEL as well?

I think you can get a cheap Y cable at radio shack that will work just fine to trouble shoot the situation.
I'd say first step would be to take effects out of the loop like was advised above, it sounds.to me like your effects were working fine but you.never know, sometimes inputs or cables can go beat at weird.times and make you think its something else bc they just worked. Lol
Next step imo would be to get a cheap Y cable, wont cost much and its a good step before going into tje guitars wiring. That's assuming you think the jct box is wired correctly.

Isolate the components and youll find the problem right quick, good luck
 #132414  by TeeJay
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:42 am
Thanks guys for all the help. Here is what I have so far: Going from the send straight to the return of the network box the signal is prefect. No audible difference in tone from OBEL/ OBEL bypass. As soon as I introduce any pedal into the network box chain there are major problems. Depending on what pedal is on there is signal loss, RFI, buzz. The Qtron goes feedback squeel and the delay goes completely bonkers. Even when the pedals are off there is major signal loss and RFI. My pedal board has always ran pefect in front of the amp so why now with the loop has it gone nuts?
 #132417  by hippieguy1954
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:30 am
You really need to answer all the questions asked above for us to help you.

Here are a few more:
Do you have one TS jack and cord going directly to the amp input?
Do you have one TRS jack and cord going to the input of the network box?
Are the TRS and the TS jack/cords plugged into the correct output jacks on the guitar?
 #132418  by waldo041
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:39 am
You have a send jack from the network box that goes to the input of the first effect, and then from the last effects output jack it goes to the return of the network box. Reverse these so that the return of your network box goes into the input of your first effect. then the output of your last effect goes to the send of your network box.

~waldo
 #132419  by TeeJay
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 11:44 am
Thanks hippieguy1954. I fixed my line splitter with your diagram. I have a 1/4 TS plug insrument cable from the output of the guitar to amp. I have a 1/4 TRS plug two conductor mic cable from the OBEl output to the network box. When I go from the Send to reutun with a 1/4 TS instrument cable everything is great. Is only hen I introduce any pedal betweem the send/return chain everything goes haywire. Could this be some sort of ground loop issues with my pedal power or something? Everything on the guitar and network box seems ok.
 #132421  by hippieguy1954
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:08 pm
waldo041 wrote:You have a send jack from the network box that goes to the input of the first effect, and then from the last effects output jack it goes to the return of the network box. Reverse these so that the return of your network box goes into the input of your first effect. then the output of your last effect goes to the send of your network box.

~waldo
Yes, definitely try what waldo suggests here, if you haven't already. It would do what you are describing if they are reversed or marked wrong.
 #132424  by TeeJay
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:38 pm
Thanks guys. I switched it around like waldo said with a single ds-1 run off a 9 volt in the chain and had it working. I changed nothing but put the ds-1 on a wall wart and it went nuts again.
 #132425  by hippieguy1954
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:46 pm
Try a different pedal. If the same thing happens, then it would seem that something is going on with the wall current as appose to the battery power. Very odd!

Also, get a long extension cord and plug the wallwart into an outlet on a different circuit. One in another part of the house/apt.

Also, try running another guitar without an OBEL and junction box thru your effects chain just to see if that is ok.
 #132427  by TeeJay
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:50 pm
Very weird. Because after the wall wart caused all kinds of noise and static I went back to the 9v without changing any thing else and the signal had dropped out and was crap again. I will try a couple of other pedals/power and let you know what happens.
 #132430  by TeeJay
 Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:36 pm
I tried a true bypass tremelo pedal run on a 9v battery with the network box and while the effect was in true bypass the OBEL signal was perfect. When I clicked the effect on I had signal loss and barley audiable tremelo effect. When I pluged in the wall wart (on a differnt room outlet) every thing went nuts. Loud buzzing feedback.