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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #116572  by Jon S.
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:45 am
To Science

by Edgar Allan Poe

Science! True daughter of Old Time thou art!
Who alterest all things with thy peering eyes.
Why preyest thou thus upon the poet's heart,
Vulture, whose wings are dull realities?
How should he love thee? or how deem thee wise,
Who wouldst not leave him in his wandering
To seek for treasure in the jewelled skies,
Albeit he soared with an undaunted wing?
Hast thou not dragged Diana from her car?
And driven the Hamadryad from the wood
To seek a shelter in some happier star?
Hast thou not torn the Naiad from her flood,
The Elfin from the green grass, and from me
The summer dream beneath the tamarind tree?
I've been to two Further and around a dozen John K Band shows. When I go, in my simplistic way, I let go and enjoy the music.
 #116581  by Stone
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:37 am
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Good point. I think John has been on a path with Furthur to refine and define his own personal tone and sound approach, not necessarily trying to clone Jerry's as he may have done back in the DSO days. I think that what he's come up with sounds wonderful in its own right. I've been moved to tears at Furthur shows, and JK's playing and sound is no small part of that reaction.


B
I agree, the combo of JK and Jeff on keys really gets me. I love when those two guys give the band a run for their money. The show in Michigan was goose bumps and tears throughout the whole show. I was thinking "what are you guys doing to me" . I feel this band has major chemistry together. I dont find myself after a dozen furthur shows listening to how JK is doing jerrys parts as I just listen to the song for what it is and enjoy it.
 #116582  by Stone
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:40 am
I couldnt disagree with you more! Everybody goes to see furthur to hear Grateful Dead songs. and jk does his best to ruin them. I want to hear Garcia tone and Garcia riffs not anything jk wants to do. mmmmkay

This is the funnest thing Ive read all week. Go join DSO tour....ahah
 #116583  by jeffm725
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:27 am
The Stag wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Good point. I think John has been on a path with Furthur to refine and define his own personal tone and sound approach, not necessarily trying to clone Jerry's as he may have done back in the DSO days. I think that what he's come up with sounds wonderful in its own right. I've been moved to tears at Furthur shows, and JK's playing and sound is no small part of that reaction.


B
I couldnt disagree with you more! Everybody goes to see furthur to hear Grateful Dead songs. and jk does his best to ruin them. I want to hear Garcia tone and Garcia riffs not anything jk wants to do. mmmmkay
You are either a troll extraordinaire or one of the most clueless people Ive ever come across....mmmkay.
John is on record saying that Bobby and Phil told him they DO NOT want a Jerry clone: Tone wise or Playing wise. JK does a wonderful job in a VERY difficult position and he has done it with grace, class, and good taste. He has let his own voice come through while tipping his cap to the signature parts the material calls for.
 #116585  by mgbills
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:33 am
Elegant Jon! Love it.

Before the show starts ...I check everybody's gear. Then...most nights...Furthur, DSO, The Other Ones...I'm "in another times forgotten space." And I'm mostly straight these days...

There is a time to scrutinize, be circumspect, and analyze. For me...if I'm listening to GD music...I"m boogeyin'. I'm purposely putting "The Analyst" in a bottle. Off campus. The Muse & the Analyst don't share the same sack!

The day I go to a show to analyze, is the day I sell my amps & stop playing guitar. Do we not play to enhance our lives & ourselves? If it's just a path for self abuse, or to rank ourselves in the Great Order of WWJD players...why bother. He's gone...ain't nothin' gonna bring him back.

Peace
M
 #116595  by tcsned
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:45 am
I sense some sarcasm in the remarks . . . I hope.

JK is an awesome player and though I don't know him personally, seems like a total class act. He's got one of the toughest jobs in rock-n-roll, filling unfillable shoes that even the talents of Warren, Jimmy Herring, and others couldn't really do and he has done remarkably well. It's a tough spot to be in between the expectations of playing a certain way and needing to not be a clone (which he could do if he wanted). He has a good blend of familiar and new that, at least to me, keeps it sounding like GD music without being clone-ish. He succeeds at what I try to do only a buhzillion times better. JK gets my vote!

:hail: :hail: RnR!
 #116597  by SarnoMusicSolutions
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:06 am
tcsned wrote:I sense some sarcasm in the remarks . . . I hope.

JK is an awesome player and though I don't know him personally, seems like a total class act. He's got one of the toughest jobs in rock-n-roll, filling unfillable shoes that even the talents of Warren, Jimmy Herring, and others couldn't really do and he has done remarkably well. It's a tough spot to be in between the expectations of playing a certain way and needing to not be a clone (which he could do if he wanted). He has a good blend of familiar and new that, at least to me, keeps it sounding like GD music without being clone-ish. He succeeds at what I try to do only a buhzillion times better. JK gets my vote!

:hail: :hail: RnR!

Yes.....
 #116599  by mijknahs
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:20 am
To most undiscerning Deadhead ears, JK sounds "just like" Jerry in his rig tone, playing, and vocals. Of course to the hardcore gearhead/Jerry-head (like us here on this forum), he is "totally different" but that's because we analyse the heck out of everything but if you ask my wife, JK sounds just like Jerry.
 #116600  by zoooombiex
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:36 am
mijknahs wrote:To most undiscerning Deadhead ears, JK sounds "just like" Jerry in his rig tone, playing, and vocals. Of course to the hardcore gearhead/Jerry-head (like us here on this forum), he is "totally different" but that's because we analyse the heck out of everything but if you ask my wife, JK sounds just like Jerry.
Well, there's some wiggle room in the language here, but I think you can take a very educated, critical approach and still come to the conclusion that JK is not "totally different" from Jerry. Angus Young, Slash, Steve Via ... pretty objectively "totally different" from Jerry, in that they share almost nothing in common. On the other hand, there are enough overt (and intentional) similarities between JK and Jerry that IMO to overlook them and call the two "totally different" shows a lack of perspective, not superior knowledge or appreciation.

I'd also point out that you are creating an artificial dichotomy by suggesting they either sound "totally different" or that JK sounds "just like" Jerry. I wouldn't agree with either of those. To agree with the first shows a failure to appreciate the many similarities. To agree with the second shows a failure to appreciate what makes them distinct.
 #116603  by mijknahs
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:22 am
Good observation and clarification Zoooombiex.

I don't think anyone can or will sound "just like" Jerry from my critical ears. In fact every "Jerry style" player (myself inclued) has his own approach to the material and even though they might be "trying" to sound like Jerry, they still have their own understanding of Jerry's sound and their own strengths and limitations so they end up with their own style or interpretation of Jerry.

JK is definitely a "Jerry style" player no doubt. He plays and sounds (even sings) "like Jerry". Of course he has his own interpretation and personality but it is defintiely done in a conscious "Jerry style".

Warren Haynes and Jimmy Herring don't sound like Jerry. They don't play in a Jerry style because they never "tried" to sound like Jerry. JK does sound like Jerry because he has emulated him for years (even though he sounds distinct from Jerry and he's not trying to be a perfect "clone").
 #116618  by mijknahs
 Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:40 pm
The Stag wrote:I want to hear Garcia tone and Garcia riffs not anything jk wants to do. mmmmkay
Then just listen to old Grateful Dead and JGB recordings. That's what I do when I want to hear good Garcia tone and Garcia riffs.
 #116679  by mgbills
 Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:30 pm
Broesau (sp?),
Those clips were awesome. I love John in the role, but Trey was awesome as well.

Both were crazy good. And Brad's point on John's tone...totally Spot On.

Love the note choices and the texture for both.

Thanks for sharing.
Peace
M
 #116692  by willmusic
 Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:07 am
mijknahs wrote:
The Stag wrote:I want to hear Garcia tone and Garcia riffs not anything jk wants to do. mmmmkay
Then just listen to old Grateful Dead and JGB recordings. That's what I do when I want to hear good Garcia tone and Garcia riffs.

Yes. I go to the archives/downloads for Jerry cuz that's where he lives now. But going to shows is fun and I need that. Need it! I was only 14 last time I saw Jerry and as much as I miss him now, and as much of a Jerry tone freak I've become, I have a blast watching JK, Jeff or whoever playing the hell outta some Dead. Can't let tonal differences great or small get in the way of a good set or two of my favorite music.