rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #114651  by mttourpro
 Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:23 pm
strumminsix wrote:
mttourpro wrote:What are you saying with the slashes that the E is in the bass for all of those?


yup
Hold on, so in your mind-map the bass holds the E note at each step of the walk-down while the rest chromatically walk it down?!

Yes, I stay on E with my bass hand. Not sure if our bass player walks down or stays on the E as well----I guess I should ask him.

as for TS's post---not following the Am6 over E as those notes would basically be A C E F# (which could be called a D 9)

I think the bigger "point" is to play the descending melodic notes, which I'm doind both top and bottom doing it my way.
 #114664  by strumminsix
 Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:05 pm
mttourpro wrote:
strumminsix wrote:
mttourpro wrote:What are you saying with the slashes that the E is in the bass for all of those?


yup
Hold on, so in your mind-map the bass holds the E note at each step of the walk-down while the rest chromatically walk it down?!

Yes, I stay on E with my bass hand. Not sure if our bass player walks down or stays on the E as well----I guess I should ask him.

as for TS's post---not following the Am6 over E as those notes would basically be A C E F# (which could be called a D 9)

I think the bigger "point" is to play the descending melodic notes, which I'm doind both top and bottom doing it my way.
That's cool. I think that's one of those things that translates better on piano than in my mind :lol:

So you are holding the E on bass hand then working E7 Eo7 Ebo7 E on your right hand?

I tried working that off my guitars 7th fret keeping the low E open and all sounded good but the Ebo7 sounded too dissonant but I can't hear everything else you've got going down!
 #114665  by JonnyBoy
 Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:11 pm
7th fret
E --------o-------------- -----o---------------- -------ox--------------- E7 again
B --------7------------- -----7---------------- -------7--------------- ----
D---------7-----9------ ------7------8--------- --------7--------------- -----
G---------7-----0------- ------7-------------- --------7-------------- ------
A---------7-----9------ ------7------8--------- --------7-------------- ------
E---------7------------- ------7---------------- ---------7-------------- ----

E7 step the chord play these 5 strings
not the barre alternate pick
down a fret

It may not be right chord wise, but I play lead so I can get away with double stops and the like. I will strike the e7 chord and then pick the other two during the walk down. The vocals are usually really high at this point when we play it. I found it to be a real easy way to get the notes you need in there.
 #114668  by mttourpro
 Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:31 pm
That's cool. I think that's one of those things that translates better on piano than in my mind

Same thing when I try to understand some things guitarists tell me!

So you are holding the E on bass hand then working E7 Eo7 Ebo7 E on your right hand?

you got it.

I tried working that off my guitars 7th fret keeping the low E open and all sounded good but the Ebo7 sounded too dissonant but I can't hear everything else you've got going down!

FWIW, the voicing (note-wise) from bottom to top of the chord I'm calling Eb dim is

Eb Gb A C

see how that sounds for ya.
 #114670  by strumminsix
 Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:29 pm
mttourpro wrote:
FWIW, the voicing (note-wise) from bottom to top of the chord I'm calling Eb dim is

Eb Gb A C

see how that sounds for ya.
Was doing the same notes, different order. Even with that order, adding an E on the bass on the guitar sounds off.

Johnnyboy, my voicing:
e--7--6--5--7---
b--9--8--7--9---
g--7--6--5--9---
d--9--8--7--9---
a--7--7--6--7---
e---------------

So when trying that I was also, MT, adding the low open E and couldn't get it. May need to rethink this more or maybe find some new versions of this tune to relearn new parts (love doing that! just when you think you know a song, force yourself to relearn parts!!!)
 #114685  by Lephty
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:45 am
To me, this part in Lucy (where they sing "yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah") is a standard blues turnaround, and trying to apply names to the chords in it makes it sound more complicated than it is--it's really just a chromatic motion, resolving back to the root chord (E). The Dead used the same type of thing in The Music Never Stopped (where they sing "There's a band out on the highway..."), and Tennessee Jed (where they sing "Well you know you're bound to wind up dead").

In Loose Lucy, one way to play it would be:

e--4--3--2--0---
b--3--2--1--0---
g--4--3--2--1---
d--x--x--x--2---
a--x--x--x--2---
e--0--0--0--0---

I don't think I've ever seen anyone else use this kind of thing as part of the verse/chorus structure of a song...it's usually just used as a turnaround in a 12-bar blues.
 #114687  by strumminsix
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:04 am
Lephty wrote:To me, this part in Lucy (where they sing "yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah") is a standard blues turnaround, and trying to apply names to the chords in it makes it sound more complicated than it is--it's really just a chromatic motion, resolving back to the root chord (E). The Dead used the same type of thing in The Music Never Stopped (where they sing "There's a band out on the highway..."), and Tennessee Jed (where they sing "Well you know you're bound to wind up dead").
In both your examples those are diminished 7th walk-downs.
 #114702  by mttourpro
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:45 am
strumminsix wrote:
mttourpro wrote:
FWIW, the voicing (note-wise) from bottom to top of the chord I'm calling Eb dim is

Eb Gb A C

see how that sounds for ya.
Was doing the same notes, different order. Even with that order, adding an E on the bass on the guitar sounds off.
Johnnyboy, my voicing:
e--7--6--5--7---
b--9--8--7--9---
g--7--6--5--9---
d--9--8--7--9---
a--7--7--6--7---
e---------------

So when trying that I was also, MT, adding the low open E and couldn't get it. May need to rethink this more or maybe find some new versions of this tune to relearn new parts (love doing that! just when you think you know a song, force yourself to relearn parts!!!)



I'm sure playing a low E on the guitar does sound very off-----I mentioned this to my bass player last night and he said he does hold the E thru the whole progression....but, I don't think it's gonna sound good for the rest of the band to do that too----FWIW, I don'y beat the bass notes on the piano there.....just kinda hold on to em.

Even though I've been playing GD music for 20 years, I'm still finding things I always thought were such and such to not be such and such---just last week, we're playing Let it Grow and my guitar player's saying how the jam I've always played ( F Emin D) after the "rise and fall"
is really C G D (all over a D bass/chord--actually more like D7 D6 D, though the C G D sounds/works well)---anyhow, blew my mind. I'm sure there's other stuff "just not exactly perfect"...but then again, it's only rock and roll. :smile:
 #114703  by JonnyBoy
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:50 am
I have noticed our bobby part is more like what strummin is playing, but in my part especially since I'm singing, I am just accenting the main notes of the walk down, PLUS the keyboard is for sure adding in lots of colorful notes to round out the sound for sure! I have found that leaving the holes open for the other instruments cuts back on the "noise", plus it makes my parts easier :lol:
 #114705  by strumminsix
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:57 am
mttourpro wrote: I'm sure playing a low E on the guitar does sound very off-----I mentioned this to my bass player last night and he said he does hold the E thru the whole progression....but, I don't think it's gonna sound good for the rest of the band to do that too----FWIW, I don'y beat the bass notes on the piano there.....just kinda hold on to em.

Even though I've been playing GD music for 20 years, I'm still finding things I always thought were such and such to not be such and such---just last week, we're playing Let it Grow and my guitar player's saying how the jam I've always played ( F Emin D) after the "rise and fall"
is really C G D (all over a D bass/chord--actually more like D7 D6 D, though the C G D sounds/works well)---anyhow, blew my mind. I'm sure there's other stuff "just not exactly perfect"...but then again, it's only rock and roll. :smile:
Very interesting! Thanks for asking!!

Love that part of the tune (the whole tune too!). It's interesting, about 6 months back I found that that we sounded too think there so I started paring down the amount of notes I was playing: 3 sounded better than 4, so I tried for 2 notes. Well the power chords were okay but too, um, powerful. Then the 5, 1 inversion sounded better. Then I apparently, I musta backed too far off since the other instruments were backfilling my space. Ended up just doing powerchord (alternated 1,3 and 1,5) for the vamp, then single notes during the bop - D C D. Using the G's 5th (D) instead of the root :) kinda like you are saying. I've done the D6 but never the D7 which would setup that C soooo nicely! thanks for the tip!
 #114719  by Jon S.
 Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:38 pm
I do believe based on experience, though, that this is one of those tunes where less can be more. It's good to leave some emptiness in it as it progresses,
 #114732  by Billbbill
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:24 am
Here's what I play in the descending line - keeping E in the bass. (flat/finger picking)
Code: Select all
e--4---3---2---0--------------
B--3---2---1---0-------------
G--4---3---2---1--------------
D--2---2---2---2--------------
 #114738  by jeffm725
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:27 am
Billbbill wrote:Here's what I play in the descending line - keeping E in the bass. (flat/finger picking)
Code: Select all
e--4---3---2---0--------------
B--3---2---1---0-------------
G--4---3---2---1--------------
D--2---2---2---2--------------

EGGsactly how I play it....

and BTW there is your Mind Left Body Jam progression...change to whatever Key to taste
 #114751  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:27 am
mttourpro wrote:
Even though I've been playing GD music for 20 years, I'm still finding things I always thought were such and such to not be such and such---just last week, we're playing Let it Grow and my guitar player's saying how the jam I've always played ( F Emin D) after the "rise and fall"
is really C G D (all over a D bass/chord--actually more like D7 D6 D, though the C G D sounds/works well)---anyhow, blew my mind. I'm sure there's other stuff "just not exactly perfect"...but then again, it's only rock and roll. :smile:
Sweet !
Working up Let It Grow .... any little tid bit helps
:-)
 #114756  by mttourpro
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:19 am
Tennessee Jedi wrote:
mttourpro wrote:
Even though I've been playing GD music for 20 years, I'm still finding things I always thought were such and such to not be such and such---just last week, we're playing Let it Grow and my guitar player's saying how the jam I've always played ( F Emin D) after the "rise and fall"
is really C G D (all over a D bass/chord--actually more like D7 D6 D, though the C G D sounds/works well)---anyhow, blew my mind. I'm sure there's other stuff "just not exactly perfect"...but then again, it's only rock and roll. :smile:
Sweet !
Working up Let It Grow .... any little tid bit helps
:-)

Glad to help out Jedi! We just played the entire WRS last month....so, kinda been focused a bit more on the LIG too. What an unbelieveable piece of music...arguably Bob's best compositional effort. :hail: