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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #108002  by claytushaywood
 Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:03 pm
i've been reading a ton about speakers recently, and am actually quite fascinated by them. sorry if i've been posting too much, I really do try not to post every question I have. I do like to pose questions for people to answer with their subjective experiences/opinions.

First, I was wondering if any JBL guys know what other models of JBL are similar to the popular e,k, and d. What are some of the JBL number models that arent so widely known... like the 2205 (not sure if thats the right number), but i know some jbl's have the same magnet and motor structure as the beloved D series speakers. It'd be cool to have a list of speakers that could be reconed by weber to make cheaper alternatives to the ridiculously high D series (or E or K)

Also, I've found a lot of good prices on Altec and Gauss Cetec and vintage Electro voice speakers. Some of these speakers were the competition for JBL when JBL's were offered as upgrades to stock fender speakers. In most cases the Altec's and Gauss cetec's were more expensive upgrades than JBL's. Are there any models that are in the same ballpark as JBL's?

I've heard the altec 418b is a good 15" with a similar clean high power sound with big ole magnet and voice coil.

It seems the older electro voice 12L's can be had for cheap as well.
Is it the general consensus that weber does some of the better JBL recones- I've heard they even do a really nice D cone that is darn close to original.

Whatdya think? Do you have to have a JBL E-120 to play foolish heart and a k-120 to play st stephen?
All opinions are much appreciated!
 #108006  by waldo041
 Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:40 pm
if you want my opinion i say quit kicking the can and get yourself a k or e 120 and listen for yourself. if and when you find an equal to either, please let us know. most round here have already been down this road, and i really do not think you believe that NOTHING sounds like a JBL. it is just a fact that you may have to deal with, i am totally game to hear your opinions about this speaker or that. until you try a k or e 120, you'll always be questioning the differences. that said, once you do try one out, game over! :smile:

peace,
waldo
 #108012  by mijknahs
 Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:17 pm
claytushaywood wrote:Whatdya think? Do you have to have a JBL E-120 to play foolish heart and a k-120 to play st stephen?
All opinions are much appreciated!
D-120 for the '60/early 70's St. Stephens but maybe a K-120 to play the '76 St. Stephens but an E-120 to do the '83 St. Stephens. ; )
 #108013  by JonnyBoy
 Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:25 pm
I think it is kinda pointless to go with the knock offs since they are well over the price you can pay for a good E120 or even a K120. I bought a pair of commonwealths and I like them a lot. They are different (almost hair splitting), but way more similar than different if that makes sense. Jerry could have played through those and sounded just as awesome.

I have found recently I can push a 2x10 K110 way easier and lower volume than a 2x12 e120 to a nice sweet spot. I like the OD tone better too. I used the 2x10 as an extra cab to my HRD 1x12 combo last Friday, and the tone was what I was after and the volume lower than the blistering E120 being pushed to a sweet spot. Different gigs call for different equipment for sure, but I can't see why two 70 watt speakers wouldn't suffice power wise for most bar gigs. I used the other 12" speaker to help absorb some wattage just in case of a killer spike, like a qtron or octave div spike, I don't wanna blow the 10's.

If I were without any speakers and I had the cash, I would buy a pair of K120's for bigger rooms/outdoors and try a pair of E-110's for smaller bar rooms. If I wasn't gigging, or jamming with friends/playing at home I would have a pair of K-110's in an open back cab for my Jerry tone. Where I'm at now, I Would love to get one more K-110 and make a 3x10 mini Jerry stack! So many opinions and options. Just go get one, and build a family of them over time.
 #108027  by Smolder
 Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:45 am
I'm very curious about this topic as well. I haven't played through d120's since the 70's. I do have a e120, e110, k110, and an old k110. Bought a couple of toasted d120's and am having one reconed to a factory k120, and the other to simulate a d120... Plus, just found a mint old stock d120... It will be interesting to try them and form impressions. I'll post thoughts, and will try to get away to record clips (but don't currently have that capability).

These cost are actual and recent, not meant to imply averages or trend (but they don't seem abnormal)

E110 - $125
K110 - $109
E120 - $110
K120 - $100
D120 - $275 (mint old stock)
E120 - factory grade recone service $300 plus shipping
D120 - to simulate d120, $125 plus shipping
Last edited by Smolder on Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
 #108059  by mijknahs
 Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:12 pm
Claytushaywood,

Well, it does sound like you're trying to find a speaker that is similar or very close to an E120 or K120, right? Why not just get a decent, used E120 or K120? They are usually cheaper than brand new Eminence Commonwealths. Probably a lot simpler than getting a similar type of speaker and having Weber (or someone else) re-cone it.
Last edited by mijknahs on Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #108077  by waldo041
 Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:26 am
claytushaywood wrote:Whatdya think? Do you have to have a JBL E-120 to play foolish heart and a k-120 to play st stephen?
All opinions are much appreciated!
obviously not all opinions are appreciated!

what you need to learn is what flat response means, what frequency range the speakers you have tested or want to use have, and what the sound pressure levels(SPL's) are for the speakers. do your homework and find out what makes the speakers unique from one another. how would you know the difference from one e or k to the next when you have only tried 1 e? i have tried commonwealths, webers, jensens and many other speakers, NOTHING BEATS MY JBL K or E120's jerry or not!

a 15 inch speakers does not have the same specs as a 12 inch speaker, and a closed back cabinet does not have the same response as an open back cab. a speaker will produce more bass in a closed back cabinet. a 10inch speaker will have less low end response then a 12inch. many factors go into how a speaker will perform for any given cab or rig. if you tried a speaker in a closed back cab you need to try the same speaker in an open cab and then a partial open cabinet. all three will be different.

so you want pickups, preamps, amps and now speakers simliar to JG, but are not after his sound? not even a little? many have picked an era, tried to epitomize it, and carry there own with it. you are no different then most here. the reason k's and e's get beat to death is because there is nothing like them. PERIOD! just listen to jim shank, john kadlecik, mik bondy, hogan, tigerstrat, and a host of others who use them. many people have searched for the cheaper alternative only to end up with JBL's. are they all JG clones? no, they each are unique but some of those guys are using what he had and carrying that flag furthur. to each his own, right! so i am not emphatic about k and e 120's to be a dick, i am trying to save you the road many others have already been down. in the end it is the cheaper path!

believe it or not.

peace,
waldo
 #108252  by TI4-1009
 Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:14 am
A wise (in the good sense of the word) guy I knew in college used to tell me "If you're going to do it- do it. If you're not going to do it- don't do it." Meaning pretty much that you can think it to death: poop or get off the pot.

I got pretty much the same advice from my IT guy at work many years ago when I was debating about buying my first computer. He pretty much said that, yeah, there will be cheaper and better models available next year, but that will be the same next year, and the year after that, and.... . If you want to get in the game, you just gotta jump on the merry go round at some point.
 #108256  by mijknahs
 Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:37 am
My advice to Claytushaywood:

Buy a pair of used JBL E120's (or K120's) from Craigslist or Ebay. Try to get original cones. There are plenty out there. Or just buy a pair of Eminence Commonwealth 12's. You'll be happy either way.

Then come back share how they changed your life, made you a better person, etc...
 #108263  by claytushaywood
 Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:21 pm
Sorry about that post above. I've deleted it because it wasn't really me that posted it. I was drunk and lashed out after a hell of a week. my good friend took his own life and a girlfriend from a few years ago died in a car wreck along with the 3 other young people in the car. Sorry about that, I've been feeling like I did when I was a teenager, very angry at the world. honestly i've been trying to get a pair a k120s with original cones but I cant find them anywhere
 #108269  by mijknahs
 Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:59 pm
claytushaywood wrote:Sorry about that post above. I've deleted it because it wasn't really me that posted it. I was drunk and lashed out after a hell of a week. my good friend took his own life and a girlfriend from a few years ago died in a car wreck along with the 3 other young people in the car. Sorry about that, I've been feeling like I did when I was a teenager, very angry at the world. honestly i've been trying to get a pair a k120s with original cones but I cant find them anywhere
This guy has 5 speakers. Maybe he's willing to ship?

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/ms ... 05545.html


Jim