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A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #103879  by rotagen
 Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:56 pm
Hey all, this is my first post, love the dead, love this website.

I've got a new guitar rig I'm very happy with, but I had a general question about the EVM-12l classic speaker(for anyone who might have experience). I chose the EV speaker after doing a lot of research. I particularly like the early 70s Bob Weir tone, for instance on the skull and roses, it's just so warm and chimey. So I did some research and found the JBL d120s aren't made anymore. After hearing lots of samples none of the Alnicos on offer seem to really capture this sound.

After hearing some of my favorite guitarists (Wishbone Ash's Andy Powell for instance) used the early Mesa Boogie cabs which had the EV speakers in it, and looking at the frequency chart (very nice, no high pitched spike, very level very efficient) I went with the EV.

Only thing is my new Bogner Alchemist is a 40 watt head and the EV can handle 200 watts (amazing).

So finally here's the question (couple Qs actually): Am I not getting the true sound of this speaker by running something way below its wattage rating? It seems rather stiff, way less sustain than my previous rig. This is actually a good thing probably because my custom warmoth necked strat sustains a bit too much.

2nd question: will these be a loud enough head for small to medium sized gigs (no more than 100 people)?

Debating whether I need to get a louder setup, but I love the sound of the Bogner.

PS: the cleans are amazing on this head/cab combo, almost acoustic, very precise.

Thanks!
 #103881  by JonnyBoy
 Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:37 pm
You can get SUPER loud with those speakers before they start to stress and break up. The great thing about those higher wattage speakers is for the loud clean tone. You can be pushing a lot of watts into them and they have very speaker little break up. Our rhythm guitarist uses a 40 watt Vox at gigs, and when he needs to be louder he mics to the board. He does have issues though when the band gets loud he starts clipping his amp/speakers when he plays from his amp only. I am not sure if it is the speakers breaking up or the amp, but it is not a good tone. To answer your question though, with the EV's and a 40 watt amp you should have a plenty loud and clean sound!
 #103882  by mkaufman
 Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:44 pm
I've used the same exact speakers - in fact, I still own two. They are very clean, and can handle lots of power. They probably sound better when pushed...

Lately, I've been using one 15" JBL D130F. Very light, even in my JD Newell cab.

mk
 #103896  by rotagen
 Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:52 am
OK I had my first band practice with my new rig and my worries were borne out a bit. Had to go max volume on the rhythm channel, but that was with low gain (I like it pretty clean). The tone was fantastic, the EV is a very precise speaker, very punchy, very clean pro-sounding.

So here's a new question. I'm not familiar with pre-amping, but a previous bandmate had some strange preamp running into his old Silvertone combo and that thing got really loud.

Does anyone have suggestions or links as to what sort of preamp might work well without altering my tone too much?

Or is this not such a great idea? I'm planning on converting my Acoustic tube-60 combo into a head version, that one is certainly loud enough to gig.

thanks again.
 #103900  by tigerstrat
 Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:29 pm
I wouldn't worry about adding a 2nd preamp, unless you want to introduce that kind of dirt to your sound. However I *would* turn up the Gain (i.e. your amp's preamp's volume) a little bit, especially if you aren't getting enough sustain and/or reverb.

Are you saying Bobby used EVM 12L's at some point?
 #103903  by jeffm725
 Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:54 pm
I think he was saying he is using a EV instead of a D120 because D120's arent available anymore?

The EV12L's are very nice. I had one in my Boogie, but I replaced it with a JBL K120 (just personal preference)...Keep thinking I will sell the EV but for some reason I want to hold on to it.

By the way, The Alnico Weber California in my experience does a VERY good approximation of a vintage D120.
 #103929  by mkaufman
 Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:42 am
So what's the deal w/ D120's? I assume E's & K's are preferred?

Does anyone use D's? Does anyone like them? Can they be found? I assume they're much lighter than E's & K's?

I'm thinking about using them for a late 70's Bobby tone...

mk
 #103938  by jeffm725
 Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:21 am
mkaufman wrote:So what's the deal w/ D120's? I assume E's & K's are preferred?

Does anyone use D's? Does anyone like them? Can they be found? I assume they're much lighter than E's & K's?

I'm thinking about using them for a late 70's Bobby tone...

mk
Actually MK, among "Non-jerry chasers" but lovers of the "Vintage Fender mojo" E's and K's come a distant 3rd and 2nd respectively to D120's (as far as JBL's go) D120's are THE SPEAKER when talking about 1960's Fender amps. In fact D120's were the "premium" upgrade option from the factory as a speaker choice.

They are still one of the most highly sought after speakers. You will PAY for then though as it is not unusual to see D's going for 3-400 EACH. No they are not lighter, they might even be HEAVIER believe it or not.

I believe all the 12" instrument speakers in the WOS for both Jerry and Bobby, were D120's so if you like that sound.........

They would work great for the late 70's deal, and you have a dual showman, dont you? D120's plus a Dual Showman = Heaven.
 #103948  by tigerstrat
 Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:03 pm
jeffm725 wrote:I believe all the 12" instrument speakers in the WOS for both Jerry and Bobby, were D120's so if you like that sound.........
Mostly true, but I recall reading something semi-recently by a sound guy (RT maybe?) that said they would sometimes resort to replacing blown D120's with whatever paper-cap JBL 12" was being used for the Wall's vocal, drums and piano cabs at the time... the 2202 maybe. But that would probably just be 1-2 drivers, out of a column of 20!
 #104018  by jeffm725
 Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:31 am
mkaufman wrote:I've come across postings that say that the D120 is lighter than the E & K model?

mk
Entirely possible, I am just going off memory of a past twin I had with 2 d120's in it, it was pretty heavy. I didn't remember it being significantly lighter than when i had another one with E's in it, but certainly it could have been.