Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #100804  by JamminJommy
 Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:26 am

I asked for my Weber Cali the same. I like it- I'll have to try a Neo next and decide. I went with the Cali because I like E120 era Jer tone the best- but I like the logic of being able to push the lower wattage webers in a way that Jerry did without having to play in a stadium- I play bars and clubs at most!


 #100812  by joeriz
 Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:29 pm
Mine is light dope, cloth surround guitar, aluminum dustcap...
I asked for my Weber Cali the same. I like it- I'll have to try a Neo next and decide. I went with the Cali because I like E120 era Jer tone the best- but I like the logic of being able to push the lower wattage webers in a way that Jerry did without having to play in a stadium- I play bars and clubs at most!
This sounds just like what I'm looking for. I'm thinking I should try the Neo as spec'd above...particularly since I rarely play stadiums. :lol:

 #100821  by waldo041
 Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:19 pm
hogan wrote:D120 alnico mag 75-80 watt handling
K120 Alnico mag 100 watt handling
E120 Ceramic mag 300 watt handling

I believe they were introduced in that order.

The difference between d and k's to my ears is next to nil. I prefer d's and k's because I can actually push them w/o having to use huge power. Same w/ the Weber neo mags. Sweet pushed jbl tone at lower (yet still plenty loud) volumes.

iirc, the E120's are rated at 150 watts.

 #100833  by waldo041
 Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:49 pm
RiverRat wrote:150W continuous sine and 300W continuous program.... So they are rated for 300W.
agreed, but for guitar application we need to look at the continuous sine rating of 150 watts, just as his listed k120 continuous sine rating of 100 watts. the 200(K) and 300(E) watt continuous program ratings are for the home stereo type application.
JBL wrote:The continuous program power method of rating is acceptable for loudspeakers at home, because the dynamic range of music they reproduce has been greatly compressed in the recording process and playback levels are relatively moderate. As a result, demands placed on home entertainment loudspeakers are far less critical than those used with amplified musical instruments.

 #100928  by modz
 Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:44 pm
K's and D's are my favorite too and agree that nothing truly sounds the same. I have AB'd a bunch of speakers and had a lot of different guitarist (who are JBL guys) in my studio doing a blind AB and 90% can tell the difference and choose JBL's correctly. Before I mentioned the Peavey Black Widow with metal dust cone. They don't sound as close as I wanted them to but still a good speaker for the $.
E's are 20 lb's 150 watts sine wave
K's are 14 lb's 100 watts sine wave
I have pushed a K past 100 a bunch of times.....
Me myself I like K's better and not only because they are lighter.
I have been using the Webers and people are generally satisfied after break in and Weber folks are great to deal with.
So I'm adding the cheesy Black Widow to the list. Sorry:) If you aren't a big JBL guy anyway it is a speaker to think about. I have a personal 2x12 with Peavey's that I use when playing stereo along with my 2x12 K cab. I will choose the K cab every time unless I am outdoors and it may rain......... My JBL's hate humidity and sound totally different when they get damp and I don't care if my $75.00 Peavey's get damp. Always get the metal dust cone if you are going for the Jer tone.
 #104588  by claytushaywood
 Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:47 pm
I was hoping to order speakers this weekend. but upon research i am now confused. maybe the best way to put this is... what would be the best speaker to put in my 40 watt pro reverb. i will be using it as a combo for now, getting a cab very soon (after i figure out what route i wanna go with that) and then a power amp which i cant imagine pushing more than 100 watts out of. as i like to run stereo with another amp for one of my more active projects. i do like to push the amp to crunch sometimes and i've heard the paper dome is better than aluminum... but man i love jerrys 72-74 pushed amp driven sound (not his dist + sound though) but the e120 doesnt sound as good unless its cranked...? what's the best lower wattage option? isnt the eminence commonwealth a lot less sensitive and a bit lower at 225w? anyone got sound demos of the weber? i likke what strumminsix said about his neomag... you got any sound clips?
 #104589  by strumminsix
 Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:53 pm
Weber Neomags are D120 type speakers. Would not recommend as a substitute for Es. Weber Cali with aluminum dust cap would be closer imo.
 #104727  by claytushaywood
 Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:20 pm
I live in kentucky, where people dont seem to care much about quality gear, used to live in colorado and offered pedal mods on the cheap and was able to support quite a gear habit out of that- here in ky i've done work for 3 people. anyways, ive never heard these vintage jbl's or similar new production speakers in person. i feel like i would be into the d's or k's more than the e's. i do use fuzz and boosts a lot in one of my bands. i have a 45 watt pro reverb right now, but i could use a bit more headroom on. i'll be upgrading to an external power amp soon, but i doubt i'll ever run it louder than say the volume level of a twin's clean headroom (though i'll be blowing JBL's in a 3x12 someday). i'm down with running a 1x12 if that will sound better for the amount of volume im using- i kinda dig that sound. i do run stereo with one of my projects. So what would be the best choice for about 30-100 watts of power or so? i know it's difficult to guesstimate volume versus wattage. is there a speaker that will sound good at medium low volumes and allow me to crank it up enough and still stay clean if my amp is pushing clean power, along with sounding good when i'm clipping my amp or running fuzz. maybe a neomag or cali? would a paper dome better-or is aluminum absolutely nescessary? i like jerrys 72-74 overdrive sound a lot and he's using aluminum domes right? does the cali really sound like a jbl with its 2" voice coil? i was gonna go ahead and try the neomag but weber's site says they're out of stock!

once again, i apologize for my length posts filled with contradictions, ramblings and absurd amounts of question marks. and i really appreciate anyone who actually reads my posts! waldo and strumminsix and all you other guys are too cool!

i'll be getting this rig together soon and be posting sound and video recordings galore to help out newbs like me of the future!
 #107873  by claytushaywood
 Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:54 pm
I just reread this thread after quite a bit of research... so much misinformation and I thunk on the internet, here is a continuation of this pattern, but with what I believe to be a better thunk version haha. Here is a "more correct"... maybe

D's came first- alnico- they handle the least wattage because of their surround- its paper- its basically like a continuation of the cone- this is the major reason a lot of people (not on this forum of course--for the most part at least) like the d's the best. This is by far the easiest JBL to blow. A lot of D's out there have what appear to be the original cones, but with non original surrounds. you know how the JBL factory recone kits are becoming rare, and i'm just talking about the E series factory recone kits. This used to be true of the D series recone kits, and a lot of people would use a K kit which had a completely different cloth surround that was more similar to the E kit.

K's came next- still alnico- handle more wattage with their cloth surrounds. I'm confused here by the evolution of this surround. apparently all K's have cloth surrounds. and i've read in some places that eventually they started treating the cloth surround that could handle even more power. I also believe all the E series have the treated cloth surround or at least a stronger more evolved cloth surround than the K series. later model E's at least.

Now come the E's- the ceramic magnets can handle a ton of wattage- and the surrounds are the most evolved JBL surrounds in terms of power handling.

Now sound, I have recently tried some different jbl's with varying degrees of originality. I like them all. If youre looking for a sound description of these speakers. check this forum, because these guys are chasing the JBL guitar sound and know their stuff. I do however believe that many JBL workalikes that are being produced sound good, and sound very similar to real JBL's. Maybe I need to get a pristine set of D's K's and E's in 12" and 15" and play them for hours and hours to really start hating the remakes. But the weber california's, even with their smaller voice coils, rock and the eminence commonwealth is a darn good substitute for an E series.

Today i got a chance to play a HUUUUUGGGE marshall ported bass cab (almost as tall as 2 4x12's and a lot deeper and wider) loaded with two JBL d140's with a highpass leslie (rotophase?) in between my pro reverb. That was one time I did not care about being insanely loud at a music store. wow. The d140's are a good option for people that dont want the icepick highs jbl's can be known for. they're a good deal more mellow