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A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #100081  by Bear62
 Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:03 pm
Hey Tiger, I have one of the Blues Deluxe reissues and it is a great grab and go amp. I think it is ok w/ a buffered guitar at low volume. Really loves passive guitars for country and blues. Uses a Eminence speaker designed for Fender. I am thinking of putting one Weber Neo and One Jensen Neo in a 2x12 cab. If I order from weber, do I ask for the paper no dope, paper doped or guitar cone? Jury still out on dust cap, leaning toward paper! THoughts?

peace gregg
 #100090  by SarnoMusicSolutions
 Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:47 am
Healy once told me about how in the late '60s they completely stopped using combo amps. Even though there were Twins on stage, some were just used as heads, and others were just speaker cab's. They'd tweak and re-tube a Twin and Jerry would love it for about 2 gigs and then it would lose all its detail and sparkle. They figured out it was the fact that the combo amps had the speakers shaking the life out of the tubes in a very short period of time. They never went back to combos. I think this was in '67 or '68 that they figured this out.

Separate heads and cab's is one trick to maintaining a glistening Jerry tone in your rig.

B
 #100093  by mijknahs
 Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:29 am
Gotta love the Healy insider info! Fascinating stuff.

I sometimes use my Twin with the power tube section but since it's in a head cabinet, I have to use a separate speaker box. I guess I'm already covered there.
 #100099  by mgbills
 Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:35 pm
Bridging the conversation to Bedroom Tone as well...I have a Mesa Boogie TA-15 Head, and a JBL K120 1x12 from the excellent design posted from Tracey @ Sound Scaper. I added the older model reverb from EH (mistake), and to my ears it's awesome. And you can play it @ 5W (-). I've played with both channels (Tweed & Vox), and decided I love the Vox channel with the Top boost on. It's sqeaky clean, and very sensitive to pick attack. I'll do a full review when I get the SMS. I'm hoping to order from Brad within the month. I also play it with a 2 x 12 (1 K120 & one E 120 in parallel). That's just as awesome, but I believe the E120 is a bit more sterile. The whole rig has a very small footprint, and is very portable.
 #100266  by GeneralGoldilocks
 Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:35 am
Hello, I have a blues jr, champ with a 12 inch speaker (1987 red knob) and a fender deluxe reverb ri, all very good combos. my blues junior is a green board made in usa one. it is very warm, but sounds great, although not nearly as jerry esque as the drri. turn the mids all the way down on that, as it is more of a british voiced amp, i think there is a cheap mod to kill the mids on it all together. the fender drri is more of a jerry tone to me. it doesn't even have a mids control on it, as leo fender tried to minimize mids. it does a pretty good job on jerry tone. it is a super clean palatte to work with, so to speak. i bet the mesa express 5:50 would be a good amp, and you can use it on a low wattage setting around the house, but i've never tried one, it is more of a fender drri amp with a similar tube configuration (6v6), than the smaller amp in the express series (5:25, i think), which has more of a blues jr tube arrangement (thicker fatter mids). i would love to try one of these combos, but haven't had the chance yet, way more bells and whistles, and way more money. i also bet the princeton would be the cat's meow. i also own a 1987 champ with a 12 inch eminence speaker, and that one does a better job on the jerry tone than the blues jr. i still like the drri the best of all three. the best thing about the champ is the headphone jack for silent practice to not drive the family crazy. another thing i have noticed with all the mods (such as bill m mods on a blues junior), is that it doesn't change the tone that much, some are more useful than others, but other than speaker replacement, you will be splitting hairs on a lot of mods to fender tube amps, the stock set ups are usually pretty descent, unless you are burning through tubes or something.
 #100267  by GeneralGoldilocks
 Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:38 am
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Healy once told me about how in the late '60s they completely stopped using combo amps. Even though there were Twins on stage, some were just used as heads, and others were just speaker cab's. They'd tweak and re-tube a Twin and Jerry would love it for about 2 gigs and then it would lose all its detail and sparkle. They figured out it was the fact that the combo amps had the speakers shaking the life out of the tubes in a very short period of time. They never went back to combos. I think this was in '67 or '68 that they figured this out.

Separate heads and cab's is one trick to maintaining a glistening Jerry tone in your rig.

B
Good point, i went to change a speaker in my blues junior the other day and all the tubes had almost shaken completely out of their inputs.
 #100294  by SarnoMusicSolutions
 Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:17 pm
To give a more practical answer, the Fender Blues Junior actually has the same tone-stack voicing/values as the Jerry modded Twin preamp. It's the only stock amp I know of that right out of the box has the correct "Jerry" tone section values. Not that the component materials are ideal, but at least the actual voicing is right. In theory, if you have the "fat" button turned on, turn the bass way down or off, crank the treble nearly or all the way up, and use the mid knob for fullness, that's gonna be in the ballpark. Granted the small cabinet won't give the body that Jerry's cab's had, but still, we're in the ballpark, kind of.

Brad
 #100314  by tigerstrat
 Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:11 am
Phil Lesh101 wrote:Fender twin Reverb is what he Used
read the OP. he wants something small/low-power for bedroom/living room level playing
 #100315  by tigerstrat
 Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:14 am
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:Healy once told me about how in the late '60s they completely stopped using combo amps. Even though there were Twins on stage, some were just used as heads, and others were just speaker cab's. They'd tweak and re-tube a Twin and Jerry would love it for about 2 gigs and then it would lose all its detail and sparkle. They figured out it was the fact that the combo amps had the speakers shaking the life out of the tubes in a very short period of time. They never went back to combos. I think this was in '67 or '68 that they figured this out.

Separate heads and cab's is one trick to maintaining a glistening Jerry tone in your rig.

B
see my Soundstorm thread to see evidence of this in 1970:
[Now here is evidence that, by 1970, the Fender Twins were already bereft of their speaker compliments! I think this is the rear of one of Bob's TR's.
Image

Here is another TR with no speakers... either Bob's or Phil's.
Image
[/quote]

... Mesas OTOH (and probably some other more modern amps) have shock-mounted chassis; much less affected by speaker vibrations.
 #100323  by Phil Lesh101
 Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:36 am
tigerstrat wrote:
Phil Lesh101 wrote:Fender twin Reverb is what he Used
read the OP. he wants something small/low-power for bedroom/living room level playing
Fender reverbs can fit in your living room, But mabey you will have some problems with sound. Not if you keep the volume down
 #100361  by GeneralGoldilocks
 Sun Jul 03, 2011 9:48 pm
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:To give a more practical answer, the Fender Blues Junior actually has the same tone-stack voicing/values as the Jerry modded Twin preamp. It's the only stock amp I know of that right out of the box has the correct "Jerry" tone section values. Not that the component materials are ideal, but at least the actual voicing is right. In theory, if you have the "fat" button turned on, turn the bass way down or off, crank the treble nearly or all the way up, and use the mid knob for fullness, that's gonna be in the ballpark. Granted the small cabinet won't give the body that Jerry's cab's had, but still, we're in the ballpark, kind of.

Brad
In regards to this, brad is obviously a very talented and in the know guy, so props to him. I still don't know how to even bias tubes in an amp and can barely change a speaker, but years ago i was a huge deadhead and wanted to sound like jerry, thats why i started playing, after a couple of years, i tried a bunch of amps, and the blues jr is the one that sounded the most like him to my ears, so i bought it. i didn't even try a twin, way to loud and out of my price range, but anyway, i probably didn't even know what a twin was in 1996 when i bought the amp. but i must say now, that my drri sounds more jerry esque than the blues jr. a weird thing about blues jrs is that the newer ones are much brighter than the older ones. mine has a warm bluesy tone with what i would consider thicker mids than the drri. from what i understand, the old and new blues jrs are the same circuit, but one is a "green board" and one is a "cream board". i have opened mine and seen the green board but don't know why it makes it warmer than the cream board even though they are the same circuitry. In general, the tone probably has something to do with the main circuit and the cab, a very boxy and squawky combo sometimes, no where near as smooth and clean as the drri, but still an amazing sounding amp, and for the money, you can't beat it. another great thing about the blues jr and drri are they are both great practice bedroom amps but loud enough to gig with, i have yet to play with a drummer i feel like the blues jr or drri aren't loud enough for. the champ on the other hand, is strictly a practice amp, although you could mic it and put it in the monitors and gig with it just fine, i just like to hear my amp at a gig.

i feel like my drri is more of an american "scooped mids" amp than the blues jr. they all sound pretty similar to me and once you start playing with band, a lot of the little nuances and mods are going to dissappear in the cacophony of sound with symbols, other guitars, and keys all mixing in. i bet if jerry played a well set up decent strat with a decent stock twin no one but us audiophiles would ever even care or be able to tell the difference. that being said, i still want an sms ctp preamp and some kind of SMALL power amp someday with a sweet cab and speakers of some sort to replace all my fender combo amps. got a ways to go with my playing before that is going to be a necessity. bottom line, great gear will make a good player sound slightly better, but great gear will do nothing for someone who can't play, so if you really want to sound like jerry, get a decent small fender tube amp, if your not going to gig with it, get a champ. But in reality it really doesn't matter too much what it is, just start playing two or three hours a day, that will give you the best jerry tone. also, get a used one, no need to pay the double high mark up, you can get deals on fender tube amps all day on ebay. especially blues jrs (about 300) or drris (about 700). i picked up my fender champ 12 1987 red knob local for 200 bucks this year. you will pay maybe 250 for these on ebay.