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 #47703  by old man down
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:32 am
I was wondering how they worked this song up before getting it to the album. Was trying to see if I could find one version when Jer comes in with that high note lead off of Wake of the Flood. Unfortunately I couldn't find one yet. Anyway, from archive.org here are the early days for its development. What follows are my notes from listening to the streams.

February 1973

09 (FRI), Palo Alto
First ever, nothing really great here. Last minute of final jam has a slight Watkins Glen Soundcheck Jam middle feel.
15 (THU), Wisconsin
Tinny and somewhat stilted, lack of direction, not fully resolved motifs, not too on the beat, lack of punch, just doesn’t sound right. Seems to get better after all lyrics are out of the way but Weir seems to lose some interest. They do the Dm Emaj7 jam for the first time.
19 (MON), Chicago, IL
Comes from The Other One, so much more lively at start, more familiar album-like lead in, rhythm fully developed and so it has momentum. Garcia motifs are well developed and he can turn the phrases. They’re finally getting it to work for the first time and you can hear how comfortable Jer is by his relaxed manner with the vocals. Post lyrics jam has proper cadence; they really go exploring, get to exhaustion, then use the Dm Emaj7 jam to revive. Whoever saw this show got lucky.
21 (WED), Champaign, IL
Out of Truckin>Drums>Eyes, hard to hear (not soundboard), not quite on the beat, they sound a little tired, they fade at the end and don’t bother with the Dm Emaj7 jam and go to Stella Blue. IMHO, this is one of those times where they try to get the magic they had from the prior time they played it but it just won’t happen for reasons unknown. This sort of thing happens. Like trying to dream a good dream you once had but it keeps taking wrong turns that are weird.
22 (THU), Champaign, IL
One thing nice about playing the same venue twice in a row is that there isn’t a need for a sound check earlier in the day, you have a very relaxing morning without any travel, and you look forward to playing that night. It shows.

They work their magic via Dark Star>Eyes>China Doll. The get through the lyrics quickly without any waste of time and everything is going right. They're on the beat, Jer is really pretty good this night, they go to the post lyrics jam and get to the Dm Emaj7 jam in record time, at roughly the 8 minute mark. They stay there for a full eight minutes, taking you into and out of the Dm, over and over, probably to your mental breaking point, making you think that they are from another planet. (T3rrapin has provided the chords, if he is actually correct, for this end jam technique, and you can find it in another post in the Eyes forum.) The song has finally come into its own and they know just how they like to work it. It must have been a fun night for Assembly Hall and all those college kids, mid-semester.

From what I can tell this may have been a real turning point for Jerry. He had finally found one of the better jamming vehicles for his riffing capabilities, the complex sounding Maj7 to the resolved I, followed by the lower-down-the-neck same Maj7, to make it all succinctly circular in the post lyric jam. This would really accentuate his nimble picking abilities against Weir’s counterpoint rhythm strokes, and in the soothing feel that it has they would set you up for the Dm modulation, with that driving bass lead (this can be seen in the Grateful Dead movie, by the way), and then back into the soothing Emaj7 jam. Then they keep returning to the Dm segway over and over until the band runs out of ideas and/or steam, at which point they just settle the whole “mother ship” down for a gentle landing.

 #47704  by strumminsix
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:03 am
I have to wonder if Jerry didn't find this particularly exciting by being challenging. He really has his roots in folk, blues, R&B and relies many times on the myxo scale using the blues 7th. This tune requires a the natural 7th instead.

I'd imagine that sparks some new energies!!!

 #47715  by tigerstrat
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:10 pm
I've yet to hear a version where they hit the D minor other than exactly 3 times.

 #47717  by old man down
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:58 pm
tigerstrat, you may be right about the 3 times. I'm not at home right now and usually I test the chords they're on by comparing against my guitar. It just seems that on the 02-22-73 that they begin going out of the Emaj7 A, but mostly Emaj7, jam at around 8 minutes. I figured that it was Dm they were going to without the bass riff background, and so it seemed like they were going to it for a lot of times.

Can you give that a listen around the 8 minute mark and see what they are going to there? It is kind of subtle but doesn't seem to be the Emaj7 when the key sounds a little different.

 #47718  by pappypgh
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:13 pm
I'm just going by my (sometimes bad) memory...and I don't have an axe handy, but I thought it goes to G#m, not Dm at that end jam they did in 73-75.

No?? Am I thinking of a different song where there's a big G#m change at the end???? :shock:

 #47719  by strumminsix
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:26 pm
pappypgh wrote:I'm just going by my (sometimes bad) memory...and I don't have an axe handy, but I thought it goes to G#m, not Dm at that end jam they did in 73-75.

No?? Am I thinking of a different song where there's a big G#m change at the end???? :shock:
Yes it does goto G#m in Eyes in one part.

Then after a series of D#m, Do7, Dm with riff x3 etc...
Think there is a Gm in there as well, IIRC...

Also 80s versions of Cassidy has that G#m whip.

 #47720  by pappypgh
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:38 pm
Thanks for clearing that up, SS...

I knew I wasn't losing my mind...I just knew it.

OOooooooooooh...shiny! Gotta go! :P

 #47721  by tigerstrat
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:40 pm
strumminsix wrote:
pappypgh wrote:I'm just going by my (sometimes bad) memory...and I don't have an axe handy, but I thought it goes to G#m, not Dm at that end jam they did in 73-75.

No?? Am I thinking of a different song where there's a big G#m change at the end???? :shock:
Yes it does goto G#m in Eyes in one part.

Then after a series of D#m, Do7, Dm with riff x3 etc...
Think there is a Gm in there as well, IIRC...

No Gm, but after the Do7 and preceding the repeating Dm there is a D# maj common lick.

 #47726  by Dozin
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:25 pm
Do you rhythm guys play the intro like this?


Emaj7 A E 4x
E|--11--9---7--
B|--12--10-----
G|--13--11--9--
D|-------------
A|-------------
E|-------------

I always felt that the Emaj7 barred on the 7th fret was to low.
Last edited by Dozin on Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #47727  by old man down
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:28 pm
Yeah, but isn't that G#m essentially just the Emaj7 at the 4th fret.

 #47728  by deadguise
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:50 pm
In Dick's Pick's 12 (6/28/74?), the ending jam goes from the Emaj7/Phil solo to the G#m back to Emaj7-more Phil, then A#m to Cm?-Jerry does a cool "bubble up" run, back to the Emaj7 for a spell, then they slide into a D#m for a bit, then the famous "chaos riff*" (D#m)
3-----------8--6----------
4--------8--------8--6--8-
5--6--9------------------

3-----------8--6----------
4--------8--------8--6--5-
5--6--9------------------

for a few times then Dm, then Chaos riff (D#) back to Dm, short chaos riff then end on a Dm...somewhat similar to the movie but since I don't have the soundtrack to the movie I'm not quite sure...

Speaking of GD movie, that's where I got the "chaos riff" term from, when the chick sitting on some guy's shoulders is grooving to the Eyes jam, then they do the "chaos riff" and she shakes her head like it's upsetting the apple cart, then she pedals back in when the band returns to the Dm...always fun to watch...

 #47729  by strumminsix
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:58 pm
tigerstrat wrote:
strumminsix wrote:
pappypgh wrote:I'm just going by my (sometimes bad) memory...and I don't have an axe handy, but I thought it goes to G#m, not Dm at that end jam they did in 73-75.

No?? Am I thinking of a different song where there's a big G#m change at the end???? :shock:
Yes it does goto G#m in Eyes in one part.

Then after a series of D#m, Do7, Dm with riff x3 etc...
Think there is a Gm in there as well, IIRC...

No Gm, but after the Do7 and preceding the repeating Dm there is a D# maj common lick.
Right, right... Didn't have my cheaters for that on hand and my band doesn't do that part. I learned off of One from the Vault, IIRC...

Code: Select all
Emaj7	    13 barres
Abm 	    8  barres
Emaj7       12 barres
Abm 	    8  barres
Emaj7	    8  barres
D#m	    8  barres
D#o7	    8  barres
Emaj7	    16 barres
D#m	    8  barres
D#m Riff    8  barres
Dm	    8  barres
D#m Riff    8  barres
Dm	    8  barres
D#m Riff    8  barres
Dm	    4  barres >
(Yes I know, it's G#m not Abm but I cut and pasted from my notes)

pappypgh
You are losing your mind. Don't fool yourself.
But you just happened to be spot on with this!

Dozin
Intro riff that I play:
Emaj7 quick E quick back to Emaj7 A back to Emaj7.
Picked up Bobby doing that somewhere along the way.
It kind counters and circles around what Jerry does.

old man down
G#m and Emaj7 are tonally very unique. Don't cop out with those or relative minors. It does songs a great disservice. Just like in supplication it goes from D7 to Am then D7 to Fmaj7. It breathes life! Sorry if I sound like a dick but too many people I've played with over the years have been lazy with these. Playing with chords like that is great in deep type II jams or as passing chords but not main ones.
Last edited by strumminsix on Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #47731  by old man down
 Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:08 pm
I play the intro the way strumminsix does in his video. I think everyone plays it like that.

I'm not one who is much for muting strings and so I just emphasize the rhythm hits on certain strings when I do the rhythm, but place full chord fingerings.

So, from memory, like this: (Very difficult without a guitar, I'm in Singapore right now and decided not to bring my Yamaha Silent Guitar because it is such a hassle flying these days with anything extra.)

--Emaj7--A----Emaj7
e|-7-----5-----4--
B|-9-----5-----4--
G|-8-----6-----4--
D|-9-----7-----6--
A|-7-----7-----4--
E|-7-----5-----4--

Sometimes as

--Emaj7--A---G#min7
e|-7-----5-----4--
B|-9-----5-----4--
G|-8-----6-----4--
D|-9-----7-----4--
A|-7-----7-----6--
E|-7-----5-----4--


Man I wish I had a guitar here to follow what Dozin just posted. That sounds right on the money, especially since I looked at the jdarks Eyes video earlier and even he was talking about the extra chords, and then there was the T3rrapin post in the Eyes forum which listed everything too, just like Dozin points out.

Bummer, no guitar.

 #47733  by Dozin
 Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:06 am
old man down wrote:
--Emaj7--A----Emaj7
e|-7-----5-----4--
B|-9-----5-----4--
G|-8-----6-----4--
D|-9-----7-----6--
A|-7-----7-----4--
E|-7-----5-----4--

Sometimes as

--Emaj7--A---G#min7
e|-7-----5-----4--
B|-9-----5-----4--
G|-8-----6-----4--
D|-9-----7-----4--
A|-7-----7-----6--
E|-7-----5-----4--

Bummer, no guitar.
I actually use these chords as extra chords. The tab I published above I think are Dead on Bobby's strum. Pull out a 70's - 80's - 90's version and play along. Obviously the way Bobby strums these chords are different through the years but he uses the same chord pattern.

 #47734  by old man down
 Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:23 am
Hey, strum, thanks for that. I've got to get my head screwed on a little better before I post.

Yeah, I know there is a big difference between G#min and Emaj7. Big difference.

I think what I really meant to post was:

Isn't G#min7 essentially the same as Emaj7 on the 4th fret?

I think for most of my rhythm playing I'm using 7th softeners, or at least 7th micro hammer softeners on those wound strings, before majoring or minoring, to take the edge off of the pure chords. Otherwise the chords are just too fundamental, sickeningly sweet if you know what I mean.

Anyway, I had written off Eyes for the longest time, years and years, because it was so long winded through the verses. But I gave it a try not too long ago, and now, through this great discussion, I'm getting back to it, and realizing how tight it really is. Can't wait to get home eventually for the long weekend, probably sleep for 12 hours since I'll be out of my mind from jet lag (the worst you can imagine after 24 hours plus of Jet Airliners ("and my heart keeps callin' me backwards as I get on the seven-oh-seven..."), and then get back to playin' again.

Walked by an Apple store the other day. I think I'm about to commit on getting my first computer, get a webcam, and then some high speed, and start making some clips for you guys. RUKIND is my home these days; the other sites are into fingerpicking or Martin this, Martin that. Had enough.