Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #87894  by Thomas Lieber
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:29 am
Wowzers! Unfortunately language is very limiting. RR and RT are both correct, both are wrong. Rick was trying to convey that theory is great and then you engage it within reality to test it. Theoretical theories do not always play out within the practicality of reality. Rick has foraged through theories and practical applications and found what works best for him. Otherwise this discussion is similar to the one the medical industry has been weighing in forever about the egg yokes, one week they are the worse thing for you, the next week they are the best thing!

As Waldo pointed out Shielding electronic components and the Grounding of them,( though they eventually connect to the same point) are different beasts. I thought Rick had made this pretty clear in his discourse.

And yes RR is correct in his observation that if the metal housing of switches and pots etc…. are in contact with the shielding it seems to be redundant as it relates to ground. Both Gibson and Fender are the culprits that have confused this issue for many years in the way they wire instruments and the terminology used, referring to a common ground plate as its shielding. Though you can use it as both its function can be precarious if components loosen up an open ground noise will occur.

42 years of building and brain storming has proven Ricks willingness to push envelopes and continue to learn new things about 50 year old technology while trying to incorporate and marry new concepts and technology with the old. This is not always as simple as it may appear. Rick deserves to be respected no doubt but also understand that he like the rest of us is a fallible human being and we all also deserve each others understanding at times. So it is understandable that he’d be upset with being questioned by a lay person when it comes to the arena he has dedicated his life to.

RR also deserves to be heard, without the objective questions of the end user of our products, nothing would ever have improved with the electric guitar.

So I thank them both. I am sorry it headed into a pissing match of sorts and I hope we can all come to an agreeable understanding together.

 #87895  by strumminsix
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:39 am
Wow, Tom, very, very well said! I'm super grateful for folks like you and Waldo!
 #87896  by bdhact1
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:45 am
Does a 5 way switch need a ground wire soldered to it's housing ?
 #87899  by Rick Turner
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 am
As I have said privately, I am not interested in participating in any forum where mutual respect is not a given.

With regard to this topic, I was star grounding instruments in the dark ages; I fully understand the issues re. pot casings, switch chassis, the difference between shield ground and signal ground, etc. What I said that seemed to stimulate such a rude and disrespectful reaction was that I felt that star grounding was effective in guitars and basses, particularly in active ones...with which I probably have arguably more experience than most. It's OK to disagree. It's not OK to go on some sort of personal vendetta. My opinion is solidly based on experience. I've chased down ground loops and eliminated them in my time.

I'm sick of dealing with theoreticians who have no real experience nor the simple patience for a real conversation.

If any of you have questions re. what I did with the 'Dead or on any instruments, you may contact me directly, not on this forum.
 #87908  by TI4-1009
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:37 pm
strumminsix wrote:
philsaam wrote:---Achems Razor ---- means ...RICK , you win !
Occam's razor states, "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one" which can only be attributed to Waldo who has realized the issue is based on terminology and the interaction between 2 technologies.
"A theory that fits all the facts is bound to be wrong." - Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the structure of the DNA molecule.

Very sorry to see Rick leave, but I don't really blame him. A great opportunity for us all- squandered.
 #87919  by Rusty the Scoob
 Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:25 pm
Fantastic. We had Rick Turner on the board and now we don't, all over a fight about Shielding and Grounding.

I know I for one am going to head home, have a beer and a :D , put on my favorite Dick's Pick or the Grateful Dead Movie and marvel at how well Jerry's guitar is shielded and grounded.

:roll: :? :? :?