rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #138502  by tcsned
 Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:51 am
SpaceYrface43 wrote:If Tiger was semi Hollow where did all the weight come from?
the guy playing it :lol:
 #138509  by williamsaut
 Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:49 pm
Well, there you have it. From someone who should know. And I'll say this could be a serious missing link when it come to getting closer to the sound we're all looking for.

It's been stated in this thread that alembic use this technique extensively in building their guitars which would be news to me also. In fact, years ago when the Garcia tribute first came out, I remember a build thread of it and Alembics Garcia tribute guitar was not semi hollow.

What guitars did they make semi hollow? What other 'hippie sandwich" guitars ARE semi hollow. What guitars have been built as Solid body construction 'semi hollow' design.

I think that these types of instruments are actually called 'semi solid' not semi hollow. A semi hollow is an ES335 with a center block being the only thing keeping it from being an ES225 or thicker ES175 which are 'hollow body". Don't mean to get all technical!!

I've known some rhythm guys that swear by the semisolid single F-hole Tele gutars and I have to say they have a unique sound.

pretty cool stuff and the most interesting new ground being discussed that I've read here in a while!
 #138513  by hippieguy1954
 Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:28 am
Seems to me I've seen an imaging technique that would reveal all (can't remember what it's called and I bet the owner could afford it), but I don't think it's a deal breaker either way.
 #138517  by waldo041
 Fri Apr 25, 2014 6:55 am
mkaufman wrote:Maybe we should use the term 'chambered' rather than 'semi-hollow'.

mk
I think this what brought on from the response by Lieber when I stated it was chambered and not hollow. He stated that the wings were entirely hollow and I asked just how it was done since he did say he did the work. I have some questions from pictures of the inside as well as an observation pertaining to the middle sections but am waiting for a response from Tom on just how it was "hollowed" out. He is a Luthier so he surely knows the differences between chambered, hollow , and semi hollow, and he states the wings were hollow which would make the guitar a semi-hollow body.

~waldo
 #138519  by cripeowner
 Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:09 am
My AO wolf has hollow wings and it does make a different sound compared to a Moriarty I tried that was solid. Weight was quit different compared to the Moriarty as well. According to AO this is exactly how the original wolf was made. Maybe you all new that but I figured I'd add that tid bit.
 #138527  by waldo041
 Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:55 am
cripeowner wrote:My AO wolf has hollow wings and it does make a different sound compared to a Moriarty I tried that was solid. Weight was quit different compared to the Moriarty as well. According to AO this is exactly how the original wolf was made. Maybe you all new that but I figured I'd add that tid bit.
I am sure Andrew would say the same thing, but Wolf does not have hollow wings, it has cavities or chambers. Saying a wing is hollow insinuates that the wing is completely void of wood within it's outer edges, that is not the case with either Wolf or Tiger. Portions of Wolf's wings have cavities, chambers or pockets where the wood has been removed, but the wing is not entirely hollow. For instance on Wolf, I have a photo showing it's electronic cavity and it is a compartment within that wing that shows it is not Hollow. That compartment is chambered out of that wing only where the backplate shows. That wing is not hollow, if it were you would not have wood on the meaty portion of that wing it would be hollow, so there is a difference. If not, then any guitar with an electronics cavity routed out of it's body could be considered a Hollow body guitar.

Trey's Koa Languadoc is completely hollow like a violin. BB Kings Lucille is semi hollow, but Wolf, Tiger and Rosebud only have chambers or cavities of wood removed from the inner core of their bodies. Does it make a difference, I would say slightly, but the pockets were not made for tonal purposes they were put in there for weight considerations. Tonally it is not the same as a Hollow body or Semi Hollow body guitar.

~waldo
 #138548  by Thomas Lieber
 Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:03 am
I am really surprised to find this to be newly discovered territory! So for years everyone has been building this design as a completely solid guitar? I mentioned that the body wings were hollow ( not the completed body) We first laminated the multi core wood schedule for the wings, cut the core to its body shape, than we laminated the ½ inch top and back to its core. And the cores center section was Quilted Maple, not from the same board as Wolf but from the same species of wood.

any writers out there? Lets put this in book form already!

Thomas
 #138555  by TI4-1009
 Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:49 pm
tapestry wrote:Tom, could you sketch out a top view of Tiger and point out what parts were hollow? Im sure everyone would be interested in that!!!!
+1

Or even better yet- if you build your Garcias and American Beauty Classics the same way- do you have a photo of what the hollow/chambered center looks like?
 #138558  by waldo041
 Sat Apr 26, 2014 6:47 pm
softmachine72 wrote:Image
This is not how any of them are cut.

~waldo
 #138562  by HeadSpace
 Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:38 am
milobender wrote:I'd like to know how it managed to weigh 13.5 pounds with most of the core missing...
Kilo in the stash box?
 #138563  by Thomas Lieber
 Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:15 am
It was stupidity that pretty much drove Rick Turner from this site. Both Rick and I have literally spent our lifetime honing the art of a Luthier. We both have also freely offered our knowledge regarding the building and provenance of the instruments we have been involved with. The reverse engineering of Jerry’s’ guitars and the resulting assumptions found on RUKIND are nice but often incorrect.

I will hold a two day seminar at my facility this summer for builders and those aspiring to be!

Please contact me directly info@lieberguitars.com

Goodbye,
Thomas
 #138564  by cripeowner
 Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:18 am
[quote][cripeowner wrote:
My AO wolf has hollow wings and it does make a different sound compared to a Moriarty I tried that was solid. Weight was quit different compared to the Moriarty as well. According to AO this is exactly how the original wolf was made. Maybe you all new that but I figured I'd add that tid bit.


I am sure Andrew would say the same thing, but Wolf does not have hollow wings, it has cavities or chambers. Saying a wing is hollow insinuates that the wing is completely void of wood within it's outer edges, that is not the case with either Wolf or Tiger. Portions of Wolf's wings have cavities, chambers or pockets where the wood has been removed, but the wing is not entirely hollow. For instance on Wolf, I have a photo showing it's electronic cavity and it is a compartment within that wing that shows it is not Hollow. That compartment is chambered out of that wing only where the backplate shows. That wing is not hollow, if it were you would not have wood on the meaty portion of that wing it would be hollow, so there is a difference. If not, then any guitar with an electronics cavity routed out of it's body could be considered a Hollow body guitar.

Trey's Koa Languadoc is completely hollow like a violin. BB Kings Lucille is semi hollow, but Wolf, Tiger and Rosebud only have chambers or cavities of wood removed from the inner core of their bodies. Does it make a difference, I would say slightly, but the pockets were not made for tonal purposes they were put in there for weight considerations. Tonally it is not the same as a Hollow body or Semi Hollow body guitar.

~waldo/quote]
My apologies for being flip with my terminology hollow vs chambered. All I knew was wolf was not solid in some shape or form. I should have known better. There is a tonal difference when you knock on the guitar you can hear the resonance where the chamber is vs where it is solid. Plugged in there was some difference but my AO has wolf tone pick ups not the super II. I will say the weight was at least 2 maybe 3 lbs different