Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #54074  by tigerstrat
 Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:44 pm
Pete B. wrote: Mine doesn't even have handles.

Pete, on your "Kingsmen Kab", what about installing maybe a rope handle or two on the inside edge of the open back? Hidden from cosmetic concerns.

I do have a metal grille on the 1x12 I use in my stage rig:

 #54077  by Pete B.
 Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:22 pm
tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote: Mine doesn't even have handles.

Pete, on your "Kingsmen Kab", what about installing maybe a rope handle or two on the inside edge of the open back? Hidden from cosmetic concerns.

I do have a metal grille on the 1x12 I use in my stage rig:
What is a "Kingsman Kab"?

This cab has feet that allow it to lay on its side, which makes it really easy to lift by the upper front/rear edges.
I am visualizing a rectangular soft sided case of some kind.
Something like this:
 #54078  by tigerstrat
 Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:06 pm
Pete B. wrote:
tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote: Mine doesn't even have handles.

Pete, on your "Kingsmen Kab", what about installing maybe a rope handle or two on the inside edge of the open back? Hidden from cosmetic concerns.

I do have a metal grille on the 1x12 I use in my stage rig:
What is a "Kingsman Kab"?
Your kab, which iirc was designed by Sunn founder/Kingsmen bassist Norm Sundholm.
 #54079  by Emoto
 Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:07 pm
hogan wrote:
Emoto wrote:Something I've been wondering is why nobody ever seems to put protective grills of some kind over the speakers. You know, the metal wire kind that is raised maybe an inch or so. Can't imagine they'd affect the sound.
Because Jerry didn't do it is the easy answer.
Christ I can't give these things away w/ a different kind of speaker clip. Could you imagine if I put 12" grills on them, Oh the horror! Don't you know you lose all your Dead cred if you show up to a gig w speaker covers?
:lol: I thought it might be something like that! The horror! The horror! :lol:

I know how much of a putz I am, so if I ever end up with a nice speaker in a box, it will have some kind of protection.
 #54080  by Pete B.
 Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:21 pm
tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote:"What is a "Kingsman Kab"?
Your kab, which iirc was designed by Sunn founder/Kingsmen bassist Norm Sundholm.
Not sure about the Norm, connection.
Not sure of the k in kab, but it's just a cool 2x12 cab to me.
I will forever be calling it my MJT...
My "Mini Jerry Tower"!!!
This cab was made by Steve Sundholm and his Dad, Conrad Sundholm:
There is a pic of a similar 2x12 cab (but different baffle design) in their Photos link.

Wiki points out the Sunn_Amps/Sundholm_Bros connection:
 #57927  by Emoto
 Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:41 pm
I notice that on most of the Jerry style cabinets, that the handles seem to be about half way up the side, which puts them right between the two speakers. Is there any reason (fit considerations aside) that the handles couldn't be a little farther up the side of the box? I mean, since the backs are mostly open, it shouldn't affect the sound, right?
 #57929  by myoung6923
 Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:17 pm
The handles in the center make sense because of the center of balance. You want the cabinet to be fairly balanced when you lift it. Make sure that the actual handle is in the center - not the whole handle assembly. Most of the recessed handle assemblies have the handle about 3/4 of the way up on them - not actually in the center. The other thing about these cabinets is that they are very front heavy. Especially with 2 - E120's in it as well as the wight of the baffle - they want to lurch forward when you pick it up. You can't really put the handles very much more forward than center because you don't want it too close to the baffle. Just be sure to lift it with the front facing towards you or else it'll want to lean away from you & be difficult to carry.

And yes - I don't see that the handle would effect the sound. On mine - I put a gasket between the handle and the box just so that nothing would vibrate there. I also used an inner bracket on the other side of the handle assembly and then used a lock washer AND a lock nut on each bolt. After 2 years of heavy use not one of them has loosened at all.

Here's a pic of mine from the back -you can kind of see the inside of the handles
 #57934  by waldo041
 Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:09 pm
just putting this out there. i have noticed several of you guys utilize a partially open back cab. is that a personal preference?

jerrys cabs were almost if not completely open backed. this allows the waves leaving the back of the cab no interference. a partially opened back will not allow this to happen. it can tighten up bass response as if it were a closed back cab. just not to the closed back extreme. the more wood placed in the rear leaves more interference of the frequencies when they leave the cab. jerry perferred the almost completely open back because of it. almost all pictures i have seen of the rear of jerry's cabs show a strip of wood for jack connection or bracing, but nothing to the extent that i see on some of the cabs here or even hard truckers. i was just wondering as to why some of some of you partially close the backs? steve kimock has said that he plays with where he places the wood to partially close a cab. so i guess placement plays a role also.

 #57956  by bcresci
 Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:51 am
I figured they were too lazy to finish off the cabinet. :hd:

Actually, mine is partially closed because I was using the HT specs, and it seemed like an easy way to create a mounting surface for the jack plate. In spite of not being fully open, I'm actually stuggling with the amount of high end coming out of the rig and looking for ways to add some warmth. Maybe not the same thing to which you refer, but I'd hardly characterize the sound as having too much base. Could also be that after all these years I don't hear so well.
 #57964  by waldo041
 Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:34 am
found an article at ... 0Cabinets/

Open vs. Closed Back

The seemingly simple decision to build a cab with its back entirely closed off by a sheet of plywood or to leave it partially open is one of the single greatest sound-influencing factors in speaker cabinet construction. Open-backed cabinets accentuate the higher frequencies and present a wider, more “surround-sound” style of sound dispersion. They tend to offer a broad, round, and fairly realistic frequency response, partly because the sound waves escaping from the back of the cab are blending with the sound waves escaping from the front—but in reverse-phase, being produced from the rear of a speaker cone pumping backwards, rather than the front of a cone pumping forwards—and as such are helping to tame any low-end boominess or woofiness the cab might produce otherwise.

Of course, this blending of reverse-phase sound waves also lightens up an open-back cab’s low end a little, so these boxes don’t sound as full, chunky, and gut-thumping as a closed-back cab. Along with fuller lows, closed-back cabs have slightly attenuated highs, and a more direct sound projection, shooting the sound waves out from the front, while sounding pretty subdued from behind. This in itself can be desirable in some situations (if, for example, your drummer doesn’t want to hear too much direct sound from a cab placed in front of him on-stage); likewise, the open-back cab can be a boon in situations where you want to be able to monitor the amp sound from a position other than directly in front of the cab.

 #58035  by playingdead
 Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:59 pm
I love deafening my drummers :shock:

There really are so many variables, it's hard to say. But I think they are more subtle differences. The first 2X12 I built (now in the hands of another boarder here) was more closed than my current HT cabinet. And I replaced the original with a pair of 1X12's that just had smallish square cutouts in the rear so if anything they are even more closed. But I've played those stacked 1X12's right next to my HT cabinet in my studio, and the difference is subtle. So, I think the open backed cabinet, whether it is fully open or not, is pretty forgiving.

I had a 95 Groove Tubes Soul-o 75 head and cabinet, which was a pretty versatile little rig (you could run any power tubes you wanted without rebiasing because of the special Mercury Magnetics transformer) as well as Class A or Class AB, or a "pushed" Class A, like a really old Vox amp. But I also liked that the 2X12 cab had a removable panel on the back so you could run it open or closed.

One thing I have noticed about Jerry's original cabinets and the Hard Truckers iterations, is that the drivers are as tight on the baffle board as possible, with very little space between the speakers and to the edges of the cabinets. Some of the other cabinets floating around have a lot more space between the speakers. I wonder what that does to the projection and imaging from the cabinet? Did the Dead do it that way so that the Wall of Sound would take up as little room collectively as possible? Or was there a method to that madness?

They look more spaced here but that's because they are mounted from the inside.

how HT does it:

My (badly made) 1X12s.

The 2X10's I've seen on the Dead's stage (circa 1980 by Jerry's rig) were really tight, too, but they had the drivers mounted from the inside as well. I always assumed that was a little keyboard rig for Jerry before he moved over next to Brent ... a pair of 15's and a pair of 10s, which was what was over by Brent, too. He had his usual 3X12 (or was it a 4X12) to the left of his heads. I don't think they were Weir's speakers because you can see his cabinet to the right, with, I think, 4 12" Gauss drivers at the time.

 #58094  by Capt Rosebuddy
 Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:29 am
Vic, Right on man! great post..being the owner of said 2x12 I think the differences are basically cosmetic, mine has a bigger look than a HT cab does because of the spacing on the baffle, I would almost guess that the differences are so subtle between my cab and say a HT or another DIY that it might be tough to pass the pepsi challenge between them for a hack like me. Sweet photos, I dig the WOS one they should have called it the wall of birch!

I'd love to hear a clip of the 2x10's!
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