rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #89897  by uncdeadhead
 Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:59 pm
Bobby played a black and white Les Paul almost all night in Baltimore on 11-17-10. He also played a Strat. But Bobby always sounds like Bobby!

Keep on playing, bro!
 #89906  by Chuckles
 Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:35 pm
jeffm725 wrote:
waldo041 wrote:i actually think this is the problem, no healy!!! the furthur soundman makes a better recording then he does actually ensuring each seat gets a quality even sound. i think all these complaints about bob fall more in line with the soundman rather then bob. i was at fridays show and the closer you got to the stage the better the sound was, the farther away you got the less you could hear, vocals were muddy, phil. bob, jeff and jk instruments all were subpar volumewise at a distance. listen to the sbd of the show, and everything is just right.

on topic though, imo, bobbys new strat sounded better then the LP.

peace,
waldo

I dont know this for sure, but an educated guess would be that they are obviously take a separate mix for the CD, it is not an old school early 80's style recording straight off the board feed. They have a recording sub mix. Thus those after show recordings are not an accurate representation of what is being mixed in the room.
Disagree with Waldo after seeing B-more (SBD/Backstage/upper back corners for smoke breaks :D ), Worcester (five off the floor across from stage/wandering around higher places) and 1st night MSG (one section out 15 rows up John's side/two sections out 25 rows up Phil's side/top tier behind stage). There was a very good mix just about anywhere I wandered, with Bob not prominent, but certainly present. The quality of the overall sound varied simply due to the construction of the buildings, but I thought it was very well-balanced throughout. For example, 1st Mariner has put up panels on the ceiling, whereas DCU still has the exposed flat metal roof; Derek even said that Baltimore had finally addressed their acoustics problem. I think there's no amount of technical gimmickery that can really compensate for that aspect of mixing the sound.

Also, the recordings are a mix of sbd and two aud sources recorded at the board. If you take a look, there are two poles with mics on them on either side right in front of the board, one x/y and one large diaphragm. The little dude with the hobbit beard is recording it all on his Mac and monitoring/adjusting the mix as the show goes on each night. So, in effect, the recording is in fact what you hear at the board, not elsewhere. But isn't that what you'd expect in a recording... that it reflect the best possible sound available in that particular building? The house mix is not geared to the CD recording in any way. They white-noise/optimize - or whatever it is called - each building just like Dan always did before each and every show. According to the daily schedule posted in the Green Room, soundchecks run from 3-4:30 each and every show to get it right for that night's room - an hour an a half soundcheck!
 #89958  by TI4-1009
 Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:27 am
 #89959  by strumminsix
 Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:47 am
Chuckles wrote: They white-noise/optimize - or whatever it is called - each building just like Dan always did before each and every show. According to the daily schedule posted in the Green Room, soundchecks run from 3-4:30 each and every show to get it right for that night's room - an hour an a half soundcheck!
Then the sound engineer cannot compensate for what happens with people both bodies and talking.

Bobby is absent and the drummer's toms sounded like buckets. Obvious problem in the midrange and that is a problem which is impacted by people talking and their bodies.
 #89960  by tigerstrat
 Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:37 am
Even Dan couldn't compensate for people talking during the music! Especially during Space, soft "ballads", or the improv section of anything, all of which I had paid $ and traveled hundreds of miles to hear.
 #89968  by strumminsix
 Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:02 am
tigerstrat wrote:Even Dan couldn't compensate for people talking during the music! Especially during Space, soft "ballads", or the improv section of anything, all of which I had paid $ and traveled hundreds of miles to hear.
And Healy really fucked with Bobby and got canned cuz of it.

And yes, I paid good money to see them 2 nights and driving from the NW burbs to UIC on a Friday night took 2+ hours which could have equated to hundreds of miles if I'd gone in the exact opposite direction :lol:
 #89976  by Chuckles
 Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:13 pm
Similar to the problems in Worcester... as I understand it, the mids get lost in that vast expanse of space up near the ceiling, which is why Derek was thrilled to have the acoustical ceiling panels installed in Baltimore. I remember when they did the same thing at the St. Louis Arena back in the day and the huge difference it made.

UIC: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrisbaxter/4000953761/

Baltimore: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/13 ... 1469JqFEuV

The sound is optimized for the room, but it can only go so far in compensating for the acoustic properties that they are presented with. Especially in a room with these challenges, the location of your seats does make a difference. Of course the sound is better at the board. I mean, duh, right?