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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #86423  by hogan
 Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:37 am
jeffm725 wrote:
playingdead wrote:What I've learned about reverb from multitracking the band and remixing, is you need a little more on the guitar than you think you do listening to it on its own, because it really washes out in the mix. Trying to match the level of Jerry's reverb heard on the soundboards, your guitar is going to be a little dry in the mix.

YMMV.
+ 1 million.....

Fred Wilkes and I were just talking about this very thing.
If it sounds way too wet on stage, it probably will be perfect on tape. Amazing but true.
And it's a hard one to buy into because it seems so over the top. I usually get freaked out by the amount and chicken out by turning it back down. I have noticed the same to be true w/ delay which makes sense as the two are so similar.
 #86455  by playingdead
 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:03 pm
Just add a little bit more than you think you need, it cleans right up in the mix.

I just isolated a few seconds of my guitar from Help on the Way from the last gig ... it sounds like this:

http://www.52vincentdrive.com/helpsolo.wav

(This is with Waldo's buffer, incidentally.)

Here it in the actual mix (ignore the first 26 seconds, that's the bad camera feed; 720p will sound best -- 2:21 is the same point as the WAV file):



Barely any reverb audible.

(Yes, it's pretty damn scary to listen to your playing isolated like that.)
 #86457  by waldo041
 Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:46 pm
hey vic, can you link an mp3 or 16bit wav file for that solo?

peace,
waldo
 #86465  by tigerstrat
 Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:12 am
fwiw, it doesn't sound overly wet in the isolation.
 #86560  by bcresci
 Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:31 am
playingdead wrote: (Yes, it's pretty damn scary to listen to your playing isolated like that.)
I've really loved hearing track isolation on some of the GD videos. It's really given me an appreciation for just how much the Dead's sound was about the interplay between the whole band. I've listened to some of the individual tracks and thought - wow...pretty mediocre. Put it next to the rest of the band and all of sudden the sound blossoms.

+1 on the reverb - we've been dealing with the same thing. Mine has been dry as a bone - will crank it up for the next show.
 #86561  by bcresci
 Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:09 am
Incidentally - here's a sample of our stuff. We're not a jam style band. Some experienced players, some brand new. So all the usual caviats about bad playing and a bad mix.

The guitar can probably be heard most cleanly on the intro to Domino. 80's MIJ strat with Waldo's buffer -> Trio -> Valverb -> Mosvalve -> 2x12 with JBL e120's. My Old School and Good Lovin' have the MXR / CAE overdrive boost for leads.

The reverb is really low as a result of the Valverb drive setting being a bit too low. Hopefully that will be corrected in the future. Also thinking about putting a shield in front of the cab so that the room gets a bit less of the cab and more through the mains.

There's no before and after here - but Waldo's buffer made a big difference. Would welcome any and all feedback on tone / sound.

http://www.oldschoolhornband.com/themusic.htm
 #86882  by Bear62
 Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:30 pm
OK, You guys have convinced me after playing my Resurrection for 5 yrs w/ the CB-1. I am going to order a TPC1. I even bought the heat shrink tubing today to splice it in. Question, Is the CB-1 a UGB. What is the difference in gain between it and the TPC1. Thanks, Grateful Gregg
Bear's Choice NW burbs of Chicago- GO CUBS. Has anyone seen Comiskey Park recently??? LMAO!
 #86884  by jkstraw
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:09 am
Bear62 wrote:OK, You guys have convinced me after playing my Resurrection for 5 yrs w/ the CB-1. I am going to order a TPC1. I even bought the heat shrink tubing today to splice it in. Question, Is the CB-1 a UGB. What is the difference in gain between it and the TPC1. Thanks, Grateful Gregg
Bear's Choice NW burbs of Chicago- GO CUBS. Has anyone seen Comiskey Park recently??? LMAO!
Waldo has posted some streaming audio to illustrate the differences on his site: http://www.wald-electronics.com/wald-el ... clone.html under "Audio Clip Sample" Vic was good enough to lay down 7 comparisons. Well worth the listen - probably exactly what you are looking for.
 #86886  by waldo041
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 5:47 am
Bear62 wrote:OK, You guys have convinced me after playing my Resurrection for 5 yrs w/ the CB-1. I am going to order a TPC1. I even bought the heat shrink tubing today to splice it in. Question, Is the CB-1 a UGB. What is the difference in gain between it and the TPC1. Thanks, Grateful Gregg
Bear's Choice NW burbs of Chicago- GO CUBS. Has anyone seen Comiskey Park recently??? LMAO!
the differece is slight and is equal to about pushing your preamp/amp another notch up. so if you played the cb1 with 4 for volume on the preamp/amp with the TPC1 you may find yourself at 5 on the volume.

and you know that sox fans don't go to the actual games, they only sell out the "jail "cell when the cubs or yankees are playing there! :lol:

peace,
waldo
 #86951  by JonnyBoy
 Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:32 pm
No, not at all. You can use it on a standard guitar, The second jack on the Jerry styled guitars is the On Board Effects Loop (OBEL). The way that loop is wired, the signal winds up going back into the guitar as if it never left in the first place. Putting the buffer before the signal leaves the guitar through the OBEL covers the entire guitars signal by buffering right after the tone pot is done with the signal. In short, you can operate a buffer with a standard guitar setup with one jack. It needs to be placed in line with the guitar signal and Waldo can tell you where and how. Buffers are very important to a good Jerry tone, especially if you have a rig with effects and wire runs.

Some pedals have buffers installed within the pedal, Boss is an example of that. It is quite possible to get a satisfactory buffered signal by sending the signal through another device right from the guitar, but it is not the same as having it placed in the guitar, also all buffers sound a little different than each other. Waldo's is probably the closest circuit to Jerry's actual buffer. I have been using a buffer built into my rack before my effects, it is night and day tone difference and essential for retaining those crisp high frequencies cable runs eat up.

Hope that helps, JB
 #86964  by waldo041
 Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:02 am
gdrfk1990 wrote:Does installing this reqire a second jack ?
No, as stated by JB, the second jack is for an OBEL. But, you will need to replace the existing mono jack with a stereo jack for On/Off switching purposes.

peace,
waldo
 #86989  by gdrfk1990
 Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:54 pm
Great I am going to order one of these as soon as I get paid. Is it worth the extra hassle ie drilling holes , using my swamp ash warmoth for a few weeks, to do the OBEOL at the same time I obviously going to make an attempt at the obel for my new build but am wondering if it is worth adding to the old guitar?
It has a jack on the side not the front has anyone put 2 jacks on the side are there advantages disadvantages to either. I have 2 super 2's and a SD vintage single coil , As it is I am going to get a new switch I need the shallow box if anyone knows where to get one ? , new pots I am going to use 3 500k any thoughts there should I go for the 25k is that 25k or 250k are they the same ? , and I am going to swap out the neck single coil for a dimarzio HS3 I can't stand the hum. and I have to add just a bit of space with the router to fit the TPC1 it won't effect the cover I can just make the cavity bigger by a touch.
 #86996  by tigerstrat
 Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:21 pm
gdrfk1990 wrote:wondering if it is worth adding to the old guitar?
It has a jack on the side not the front has anyone put 2 jacks on the side are there advantages disadvantages to either.
You could also consider mounting the 2nd jack right on the rear cover plate of the control cavity (if that's what it has). Cover plates are usually easier/cheaper to replace than repairing holes in the instrument itself, plus not visible from the front. Just take care that you mount the jack so that, when the cover is in place, it's clear of all the pots and switches...not to mention the preamp and battery! Been working out fine for my Schecter.
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