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 #155001  by BJolley
 Tue Dec 27, 2016 7:40 pm
Question for those who are knowledgeable: How important is the Twin Reverb preamp to the Jerry Tone recipe? Specifically, if one is using a separate power amp, and therefore the 85watts of Twin Reverb power is removed from the equation, would other less powerful fender preamps provide a nearly equivalent preamp -- or is the Twin preamp special in its own right? I believe I remember Brad Sarno stating that in stock form, certain aspects of Blues Jr. preamp circuit are voiced in a manner similar to Jerry mods done to AB763 preamp circuits. Hopefully I didn't butcher Brad's point through my paraphrasing. I presume Jerry did not just start by gutting a twin, connecting preamp to a Mcintosh, and then powering 3 JBLs all at once, but rather started with a stock Twin and modified his rig over time as his playing evolved. If this is correct, the Twin likely was in the equation originally NOT just for the preamp but because its provided so much clean headroom in stock form... Thus, if one were to start with JBL's in a birch HT-style cab and a separate power amp (Mac or Mosvalve, for example), would he be able to find a smaller, lighter, and less expensive Fender tube preamp like a Blues Jr., Champ X2, DRRI head, etc. that would do the "Jerry thing" reasonably well? Or is the Twin /high end replica like SMS CTP or FYD necessary? Not looking for advice on a purchase here, just some learned insight on this topic.
Last edited by BJolley on Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #155009  by PaulJay
 Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:18 am
The Hugh's and Ketner blues master preamp is probably the smallest preamp that does the job very well, you just need to add your preferred reverb and power amp. Not that expensive if you can find one.
 #155017  by BJolley
 Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:01 pm
Interestingly, last night at practice I played through an early 90s tweed Fender Blues Deluxe loaded with a JBL e120 owned by our drummer -- and thought it sounded amazing. This further piques my curiosity re the uniqueness of the Twin preamp.
 #155026  by waldo041
 Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:19 pm
BJolley wrote:Question for those who are knowledgeable: How important is the Twin Reverb preamp to the Jerry Tone recipe? Specifically, if one is using a separate power amp, and therefore the 85watts of Twin Reverb power is removed from the equation, would other less powerful fender preamps provide a nearly equivalent preamp -- or is the Twin preamp special in its own right? I believe I remember Brad Sarno stating that in stock form, certain aspects of Blues Jr. preamp circuit are voiced in a manner similar to Jerry mods done to AB763 preamp circuits. Hopefully I didn't butcher Brad's point through my paraphrasing. I presume Jerry did not just start by gutting a twin, connecting preamp to a Mcintosh, and then powering 3 JBLs all at once, but rather started with a stock Twin and modified his rig over time as his playing evolved. If this is correct, the Twin likely was in the equation originally NOT just for the preamp but because its provided so much clean headroom in stock form... Thus, if one were to start with JBL's in a birch HT-style cab and a separate power amp (Mac or Mosvalve, for example), would he be able to find a smaller, lighter, and less expensive Fender tube preamp like a Blues Jr., Champ X2, DRRI head, etc. that would do the "Jerry thing" reasonably well? Or is the Twin /high end replica like SMS CTP or FYD necessary? Not looking for advice on a purchase here, just some learned insight on this topic.

Where amps like the Blues Junior or other preamps differ the most is with the Powering of the preamp circuit. The voltages in a Fender Twin Reverb is often overlooked, and IMHO, is one of the keys to the Jerry Tone Recipe. The smaller Power Transformer amps/preamps don't compete side by side.

~waldo
 #155027  by waldo041
 Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:20 pm
BJolley wrote:Question for those who are knowledgeable: How important is the Twin Reverb preamp to the Jerry Tone recipe? Specifically, if one is using a separate power amp, and therefore the 85watts of Twin Reverb power is removed from the equation, would other less powerful fender preamps provide a nearly equivalent preamp -- or is the Twin preamp special in its own right? I believe I remember Brad Sarno stating that in stock form, certain aspects of Blues Jr. preamp circuit are voiced in a manner similar to Jerry mods done to AB763 preamp circuits. Hopefully I didn't butcher Brad's point through my paraphrasing. I presume Jerry did not just start by gutting a twin, connecting preamp to a Mcintosh, and then powering 3 JBLs all at once, but rather started with a stock Twin and modified his rig over time as his playing evolved. If this is correct, the Twin likely was in the equation originally NOT just for the preamp but because its provided so much clean headroom in stock form... Thus, if one were to start with JBL's in a birch HT-style cab and a separate power amp (Mac or Mosvalve, for example), would he be able to find a smaller, lighter, and less expensive Fender tube preamp like a Blues Jr., Champ X2, DRRI head, etc. that would do the "Jerry thing" reasonably well? Or is the Twin /high end replica like SMS CTP or FYD necessary? Not looking for advice on a purchase here, just some learned insight on this topic.

Where amps like the Blues Junior or other preamps differ the most is with the Powering of the preamp circuit. The voltages in a Fender Twin Reverb is often overlooked, and IMHO, is one of the keys to the Jerry Tone Recipe. The smaller Power Transformer amps/preamps don't compete side by side.

The Blues Junior is not voiced in a similar manner, it just has some values that are similar.

The most important part is in the hands, they can make lesser preamps sound pretty good. But once you have that the Twin preamp will only get you that much closer to the real deal. The Twin Reverb alone will not sound anything like Jerry without the hands.

~waldo
 #155032  by Searing75
 Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:52 am
Just save yourself time and money, and buy an SMS and a McIntosh amp. Your probably going to end up with these pieces of gear anyways. Odds are good.

Sorry. You didn't want advice on a purchase. Oops. :roll:
 #155090  by strumminsix
 Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:04 pm
Searing75 wrote:Just save yourself time and money, and buy an SMS and a McIntosh amp. Your probably going to end up with these pieces of gear anyways. Odds are good.

Sorry. You didn't want advice on a purchase. Oops. :roll:
LOL! But i think you're right. Great foundation for Jerry or Bobby rig.
 #155097  by MattMan
 Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:39 pm
waldo041 wrote:
BJolley wrote:Question for those who are knowledgeable: How important is the Twin Reverb preamp to the Jerry Tone recipe? Specifically, if one is using a separate power amp, and therefore the 85watts of Twin Reverb power is removed from the equation, would other less powerful fender preamps provide a nearly equivalent preamp -- or is the Twin preamp special in its own right? I believe I remember Brad Sarno stating that in stock form, certain aspects of Blues Jr. preamp circuit are voiced in a manner similar to Jerry mods done to AB763 preamp circuits. Hopefully I didn't butcher Brad's point through my paraphrasing. I presume Jerry did not just start by gutting a twin, connecting preamp to a Mcintosh, and then powering 3 JBLs all at once, but rather started with a stock Twin and modified his rig over time as his playing evolved. If this is correct, the Twin likely was in the equation originally NOT just for the preamp but because its provided so much clean headroom in stock form... Thus, if one were to start with JBL's in a birch HT-style cab and a separate power amp (Mac or Mosvalve, for example), would he be able to find a smaller, lighter, and less expensive Fender tube preamp like a Blues Jr., Champ X2, DRRI head, etc. that would do the "Jerry thing" reasonably well? Or is the Twin /high end replica like SMS CTP or FYD necessary? Not looking for advice on a purchase here, just some learned insight on this topic.

Where amps like the Blues Junior or other preamps differ the most is with the Powering of the preamp circuit. The voltages in a Fender Twin Reverb is often overlooked, and IMHO, is one of the keys to the Jerry Tone Recipe. The smaller Power Transformer amps/preamps don't compete side by side.

The Blues Junior is not voiced in a similar manner, it just has some values that are similar.

The most important part is in the hands, they can make lesser preamps sound pretty good. But once you have that the Twin preamp will only get you that much closer to the real deal. The Twin Reverb alone will not sound anything like Jerry without the hands.

~waldo
Here, here waldo!

For what's it worth, I spent about a year practicing my Jerry chops (having already played guitar for decades) before I started the Jerry tone adventure. I can tell you that every rehearsal and gig teaches me something new about Jerry's playing. My point is, the equipment is certainly necessary if you're going for Jerry tone, but just practicing to/with Jerry recordings using any ole amp and nice axe is the hard work!

Cheers to all the Jerry heads!
 #155105  by BJolley
 Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:58 pm
Yes, I fully understand and agree with the tenet that the rig is nothing without the player. My question was really just a tech question -- not a "how do I get a Jerry in a box?" question. Specifically, I was curious to what extent, if any, a Twin Reverb preamp alone differed from other Fender/Blackface preamps in shaping tone. Waldo's answer re the powering of the Twin preamp circuit was on point.