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A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #106388  by mkaufman
 Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:05 pm
You bring up a good point - pick holding & strumming technique.

Even though I'm a 'Bobby', I used the 'Jerry' pick, however, in order to get the Bobby sound, I hold the pick to the side - almost horizontal to the strings then sweep across them somewhat gently.

Way different sound than using the tip with a rougher sweeping pattern.

mk
 #106393  by waldo041
 Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:15 pm
caspersvapors wrote: BTW the other name you might be thinking of is Derek Trucks, he sets his treble high and his bass pretty low. However the thing about Jeff Beck and Trucks is that theyre not using picks, theyre using the fingers which is a HUGE difference. Playing with youre fingers instantly cuts the volume and the highs so I think they turn it up a lot to compensate for that difference.
there are a TON of tunes Jerry is fingerpickin people assume he is playing with a pick. i would say that half or more of the songs Jerry played in the GD or JGB we're fingerpicked. entire songs or verse and chorus's. example, RoR is pick for the verses and fingerpicked for chorus. the intro and verse of deal are fingerpicked, but you rarely see anyone do this.

point is tonewise things are very even with Jerry's rig fingerpickin or flatpickin.

peace,
waldo
 #106397  by mijknahs
 Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:38 pm
waldo041 wrote: there are a TON of tunes Jerry is fingerpickin people assume he is playing with a pick. i would say that half or more of the songs Jerry played in the GD or JGB we're fingerpicked. entire songs or verse and chorus's. example, RoR is pick for the verses and fingerpicked for chorus. the intro and verse of deal are fingerpicked, but you rarely see anyone do this.

point is tonewise things are very even with Jerry's rig fingerpickin or flatpickin.

peace,
waldo
I was amazed when I saw that the intro to Cumberland and China Cat were fingerpicked (I think I first saw this on the "Downhill From Here" Alpine VHS video). Yes, lots of stuff is fingerpicked. Way more than I ever would have imagined. What's really amazing is the tone he gets when fingerpicking. It's so bright that it sounds like he's using a pick! When he switches to a flatpick, the tone doesn't change that much. It's pretty seamless.
 #106401  by caspersvapors
 Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:37 pm
mijknahs wrote:
waldo041 wrote: there are a TON of tunes Jerry is fingerpickin people assume he is playing with a pick. i would say that half or more of the songs Jerry played in the GD or JGB we're fingerpicked. entire songs or verse and chorus's. example, RoR is pick for the verses and fingerpicked for chorus. the intro and verse of deal are fingerpicked, but you rarely see anyone do this.

point is tonewise things are very even with Jerry's rig fingerpickin or flatpickin.

peace,
waldo
I was amazed when I saw that the intro to Cumberland and China Cat were fingerpicked (I think I first saw this on the "Downhill From Here" Alpine VHS video). Yes, lots of stuff is fingerpicked. Way more than I ever would have imagined. What's really amazing is the tone he gets when fingerpicking. It's so bright that it sounds like he's using a pick! When he switches to a flatpick, the tone doesn't change that much. It's pretty seamless.
depends on the era, if you watch the euro 72 vid of china cat on youtube Jerry is using a pick.

And the technique that is used in instances where Jerry fingerpicks is a bit different than what Im referring to with Trucks and Beck. Garcia will finger pick on riffs or use rolls/patterns on chords where he is able to apply a kind of spank that is close tonally to how he sounds with a pick.

However, if you asked Jerry to play the solo to "hard to handle" or jam on "the other one" with his fingers I think youd hear a big difference. Its just a different kind of finger picking.
 #108169  by Jon S.
 Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:13 pm
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: bass - off
mid - half
treble 85% to 100%

B
I'm back again with what may be the dumbest question yet in this thread but as no one else has yet asked or answered the question, I guess someone's got to do it. :oops: When you advised these settings, Brad, did you mean with our SMS Classic Preamps' 3-way bright switches set in the middle?
 #108175  by tcsned
 Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:33 pm
Jon S. wrote:
SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: bass - off
mid - half
treble 85% to 100%

B
I'm back again with what may be the dumbest question yet in this thread but as no one else has yet asked or answered the question, I guess someone's got to do it. :oops: When you advised these settings, Brad, did you mean with our SMS Classic Preamps' 3-way bright switches set in the middle?
Yeah, in the middle - from what I remember dark is mostly for using a direct to PA type rig, bright is if you're trying to kill someone :shock: ... j/k

I was skeptical of using no bass but it's really grown on me.
 #108184  by Jon S.
 Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:59 am
tcsned wrote:I was skeptical of using no bass but it's really grown on me.
I have to admit it - me, too.

I'm also experimenting now with the Reactance settings on my RV300. The manual describes their function as follows:
This control determines the amount of Reactance for Channel 1. As this control is turned clockwise,
the simulated output impedance is increased and the Velocity 300 will increasingly exhibit the
characteristics produced by the interaction between a tube amplifier and a guitar speaker cabinet.
When turned fully counterclockwise, the simulated output impedance is at a minimum.
Both electronically and in practice, I have to admit, I'm not sure what exactly the Reactance controls are doing. They do fatten up the sound significantly as the Reactance is increased, moving the unit from sounding like a "pure" power amp to more like a guitar amp, but don't function quite like other amps' knobs and interact with the preamp settings in unique ways.
 #108314  by claytushaywood
 Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:52 am
I really wasnt feeling like adding to this long disccussion of something that is pretty simple at it's core. most people never try to turn the bass all the way down and treble all the way up on these amps, but thats where you start.

But I dissected my process and realized it was more complicated than that. At first I would go bass 0 treble 10 and adjust my picking and dynamics to work with that and it was great. then i got lazy one day and decided i could "have" a little bass. I then began to start really digging into the low strings to try to get "that" low mids spank that jerry does so effortlessly. I realized after several weeks that I was doing this, rather than adjusting my picking to the treble 10 bass 0.

Now I do turn the treble down a hair and depending on the amp is where my mids go, sometimes i put the bass a HAIR above 0. but that's it. Now that I'm working with this sound rather than giving myself the bass at 1 or 2, my sound is much better. I feel like my jerry picking is at a completely different place with the bass off. much better. It's amazing how I almost oversimplified something that I spent weeks on figuring out sub conciously.

spend a lot of time trying to get some good sounds with T10 B0 before you mess with any hair ups or downs. Of course it depends on every other factor involved, but there is something to having the bass completely off. something indeed :hail:
 #108321  by mijknahs
 Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:25 pm
Sometimes it does sound better with bass at about 2 (or where you just barely notice it). Other times it's better to crank up the mid a bit if you feel you're lacking in bass. Sometimes I back off the trebel to about 8 if it seems too much.
 #108322  by mgbills
 Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:05 pm
Here is curve ball...

I would describe my SMS as Warm. My Mesa set up clean though a JBL K120 is really bright. Comparitively ...my SMS > Mc is warm. I read thread after thread talking about the "ice-picky" nature of this rig, and I just cannot get there. I've even seen it across two diffent Mc Amps (250 & 2100). When the volume comes up is brightens up some, but never to ice-picky. I wiggin' out about this whole thing. The rig brightens at volume, but not hugely. Treb @ 10. Mid @ 5.5. Bass @ 0. Bright switch in the middle.

Adamas > Strat > Waldo Buffer > Dimarzio Super 2's (split) > Tone controls Wide-Clyde > Mogami custom cables > SMS > MC250 > K120 (in SoundScaper copy open back) = Warm. Lush. The rig growls nicely, and is very responsive to pick attacks. I've been playing with a fatty pick for 3+ years, but still...

I love that '76 - '78 brighness. I hear it across the TB's & with Wolf. I definately hear some "Warmth" creep in with the advent of Tiger, and really...my rig sounds much like '79-84 is. I don't listen to much of the 80's stuff, because I saw tons of that stuff.
:?: :?: :?:

I think I'll haul it all to PDX & let Pete B. play it. My Treble knob needs an "11"...no really ...what we all need is The Eleven 8)

Peace
M
 #108323  by mijknahs
 Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:34 pm
mgbills,

I personally think its great that you are getting that lush tone with your rig and no "ice-picks". I lot of people here would love that.

But you want a brighter tone. Have you tried turning down the gain on the SMS? Seems to sound brighter at lower gain levels. Maybe about 9 o'clock?

Also, Garcia was using the Fender Extra Heavy picks in the late 70's. The Adamas is better for the 80's type of tone. If find the fatter picks have a warmer tone. A Fender Extra Heavy would probably brighten it up some.

Jim
 #108324  by mgbills
 Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:47 pm
Thanks Jim,

I've had it stuck in my mind that I should have the gain between 5 & 6. Everything needs to be thought through (is the moral to this story!). I also have a light pick attack which I've developed more through timidity than anything else. I've been playing for about 6 years, and didn't want to lose my wife over a heavy-hand with a pick. I've just started playing/minor gigging with some local fellas. We play about 30% GD. Love it. Love it. Love it.

This would mean I get to crank the Mc250 up! Awesome!

Thanks again for the tip.
Peace
Marty