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A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #100481  by tigerstrat
 Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:58 am
For some reason, I said Shoreline while meaning RFK. From 6/26/93 to the next GD show 8/21/93 being the huge tonal shift.

@Seamones, yes 8/21 Eugene was the debut of both the Cripe and the new "amp" sound.
 #100516  by jdsmodulus
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:13 am
tigerstrat wrote:For some reason, I said Shoreline while meaning RFK. From 6/26/93 to the next GD show 8/21/93 being the huge tonal shift.

@Seamones, yes 8/21 Eugene was the debut of both the Cripe and the new "amp" sound.
Autzen in 93 was HOT! :hail:
 #100520  by Phil Lesh101
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:47 am
When useing JBL-E120 Speakers, While Mic'in Them Does the mic you use Change the sound Coming out of the PA Spaekers?
 #100526  by playingdead
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:26 pm
Of course it does. Everything changes everything.

A mic with pronounced bass response will make the guitar sound bassier out of the PA. A mic with a cut in treble response will make the guitar sound duller. It matters how close the mic is to the speaker, and where it is positioned relative to the cone ... on-axis, off-axis, at the cap edge, at the cone edge, right in the dustcap (don't do that).
 #100605  by Phil Lesh101
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:09 pm
PlayinDead- I was unsure because my guitar player was miking his Speakercabs last night, Just how you do With 2 JBL speakers, but without 2 mics. We were curious

Scoob- Im not sure what mic's are the " better " Mic's For Miking the speakers. though
 #100606  by JonnyBoy
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:40 pm
That's a good question, but easy to figure out if you think about it... His cab is 2x12 with the exact same speaker. My situation is the same and In my cab I have my favorite speaker I use and put one mic on it since the other speaker is relatively the same, no need to mic it too. The use of the 2x12 in actuality is to get a good stage volume. We were so loud last night, I was pushing my Mac to a nice place. I can't do that at most other venues I play right now.

However if you use a cab with 2 different voiced speakers and you want to blend the tone from each of those speakers, you will have to mic both. But for a Jerry rig one speaker will suffice since both speakers are identical. I have had good luck with an SM57, PLUS a good sound guy that knows the tone I want to go for, and placed maybe an inch or so from the edge of the voice coil and a few inches from the speaker itself. I am considering a new Mic for my rig, I think I can squeeze a little more Jerry from it with a Seinnheiser. If you don't have a sound guy get some recordings or feedback from others about the tone so you can tweak it at the board/speaker.
 #100609  by eric
 Fri Jul 08, 2011 11:02 pm
Also the preamp on the board , as well as the board itself and all outboard eq/ dynamics/ pa speakers....etc ...will cause variations in your tone of the mic'd speaker. A good idea is to throw on a pair of phones at the board that you practice/ gig with, pfl level set, and check for appropriate level and gain staging-very important) . Then , you and your guitarist check for different placements to see what they all sound like. The phones will allow you to hear the speaker more precisely , without the room or more coloration from the pa speakers . Pick a spot you guys really like , take the phones off and make sure it sounds good in the room . You'll really be able to hear some tonal differences. There are some standard mics and placements that you can use as stated in previews posts. A 57 will do just fine on whichever speaker sounds the best to you.The only way to find the sweet spot is trial and error. The guitar should be then panned appropriately. You want the mono source of just one mic because once it's fed to the board it will become a "stereo" channel out the pa speakers. 2 exactly panned mono channels, from 2 mics ,stacked on top of each other would just be unnecessary in the mix . Remember that the PA is SOUND REINFORCMENT. Anyone, please feel free to correct me here about anything.

Now if you had 2 different speakers in a cab, and you were recording, you could mic both speakers and decide what to do later in he mixing process.

It's funny because you start out just wanting to play the geet, and then you realize how absolutely multidimensional it becomes with Live Sound / Recording/Mixing/Mastering / Electrical Engineering (Ha)/ And then there's the guitar rig shit , The guitar itself, Theory...etc.

Christ, whose got time to play!!!
Last edited by eric on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #100611  by eric
 Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:40 am
And also, back to the first question of this post. The quest for "late Jerry Tone".

I accidentally just discovered something: You can get extremely close to that tone for less than $150....Including Guitar!!!

I'm just about heading out on a trip to italy for the next 3 weeks and needed some sort of portable "rig" to take with me, because that's a long time to not be able to play... I picked up this cha-eeesy fender squire mini ( fire engine red , nonetheless) thats fits perfectly in my suitcase. I then got the Amplitube iRig for the iPhone. It has a '65 Twin Reverb along with a envelope, delay, od, etc, recorder, mixer, different cabs, a 57 or U87..etc..Totally freakin sweet. Totally late jer tone!!! Talk about NAILING IT (HAHA) .. Makes sense with the modeling/emulation...and you can take the cab and amp off like the Fractal and go completly dry and direct for even more late jer tone!!!
and here's the kicker...U can run it to the board !!!! Problem solved!!!
 #100637  by zambiland
 Sat Jul 09, 2011 6:40 pm
eric wrote:And also, back to the first question of this post. The quest for "late Jerry Tone".

I accidentally just discovered something: You can get extremely close to that tone for less than $150....Including Guitar!!!

I'm just about heading out on a trip to italy for the next 3 weeks and needed some sort of portable "rig" to take with me, because that's a long time to not be able to play... I picked up this cha-eeesy fender squire mini ( fire engine red , nonetheless) thats fits perfectly in my suitcase. I then got the Amplitube iRig for the iPhone. It has a '65 Twin Reverb along with a envelope, delay, od, etc, recorder, mixer, different cabs, a 57 or U87..etc..Totally freakin sweet. Totally late jer tone!!! Talk about NAILING IT (HAHA) .. Makes sense with the modeling/emulation...and you can take the cab and amp off like the Fractal and go completly dry and direct for even more late jer tone!!!
and here's the kicker...U can run it to the board !!!! Problem solved!!!

I've been experimenting with this. My only complaint is with iRig. The input signal is not great. I'm hoping to try Apogee Jam. it seems like a lower latency, higher fidelity solution.

Have a great time in Italy! I love it there.
 #100644  by bdhact1
 Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:07 pm
eric wrote:And also, back to the first question of this post. The quest for "late Jerry Tone".

I accidentally just discovered something: You can get extremely close to that tone for less than $150....Including Guitar!!!

I'm just about heading out on a trip to italy for the next 3 weeks and needed some sort of portable "rig" to take with me, because that's a long time to not be able to play... I picked up this cha-eeesy fender squire mini ( fire engine red , nonetheless) thats fits perfectly in my suitcase. I then got the Amplitube iRig for the iPhone. It has a '65 Twin Reverb along with a envelope, delay, od, etc, recorder, mixer, different cabs, a 57 or U87..etc..Totally freakin sweet. Totally late jer tone!!! Talk about NAILING IT (HAHA) .. Makes sense with the modeling/emulation...and you can take the cab and amp off like the Fractal and go completly dry and direct for even more late jer tone!!!
and here's the kicker...U can run it to the board !!!! Problem solved!!!
What happens when someone calls you durrng a show ?
 #100662  by SarnoMusicSolutions
 Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:15 am
yes, the iRig interface is pretty much useless crap. The issue with the iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch running the Amplitube stuff is that the mic-input impedance is too low for passive guitars and all these interfaces are developed for passive guitars. Our buffered Jerry guitars are much better suited for that kind of input. BUT, the iRig does some really bad stuff to the input level since it's passive and there's a serious loss of signal by the time it gets the impedance up and then into the iPhone, etc. These other products like the Apogee or others that use the dock port instead of the headphone/mic input are gonna be worlds better at getting a clean, quiet, and strong signal into Amplitube.

I don't believe that the better interfaces will improve the latency issue. That's in the software and iPhone processor itself, not the interfacing, as far as I understand it.

The Amplitube software itself does feel a bit slow or latent to me, just a bit. But I haven't heard it with a strong, good quality signal yet, only with the dreadful iRig which I quickly returned. So maybe if the tone improves, then the latency won't bother me as much. I can't imagine that Amplitube in an iPhone will ever even remotely touch Axe-FX, but hey, maybe a usable, mildly acceptable sound will come from it. It's a fun idea for sure. Uber compact and portable.

Brad
 #100667  by eric
 Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:07 pm
Ya , the iRig will def be goin up on CL or eBay as soon as I get back... The "nailing the tone" thing And axeFx comparison was def a joke. But for what I need, it'll def do the trick. I could have also just brought my HK (very portable ) and ran it into my m-aud interface , and pretty much had "my tone". But like I said , this will just give me something to be able to practice with in a quiet manner while still getting some form of tone , albiet suck suck sucky ... But if you think about it , 10 years ago this would have been a device at the top of it's food chain .. Still pretty neat technology I think ... It'll be neat to see what the next 10 years will bring to this kind of stuff!
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