rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

When it doesn't fit anywhere else
 #105577  by Octal
 Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:32 pm
Evaluate a player by one bad night: then Jerry would suck too.

Jerry probably inspired more people than any other guitarist. But was it so much Jerry, or the situation/genre? The audience would often be on psychedelic drugs, and that could easily lead them to believe in Jerry as a saving grace, a director. The dead was the most popular jam band of the 20th century, which automatically makes him more popular.

Who is in any position to evaluate how good a player is? If one says that Jerry is just going at something more subtle that many people do not "get," maybe some other guitarist who doesn't make sense to one is just too "subtle"--is subtle a good or a bad thing? The ability for the artist to express his ideas--but who knows what was actually going on in Jerry's head, as opposed to on his guitar? etc.etc.

Anyway, I think people just like to see names like B.B. King, Jimi, and Clapton up in the top. It's about marketing.
 #105582  by Cmnaround
 Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:11 am
Tennessee Jedi wrote:^^^^ wrong year ^^^^^
This year he is # 46
:D
46th? 46th?? I pulled up the wrong list on google and Jerry is 46th??????? I was insulted with the 13th place - but damn this is even worse than it appears. I'm going back to archive for a while to listen to some shows.
 #105583  by ebick
 Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:43 am
Grant wrote:hendrix #1 - cool
page #3 - cool
clapton #2 - here's the problem
How about this....

Pete Townshend #10......I love me some Who, but seriously?

And did I miss something? Steve Howe not even on the list?
 #105602  by deepelem
 Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:53 am
I don't care about lists .. people's criteria for what constitutes a great player are different ... great technical ability is a lovely thing to have indeed ... but to me it's difficult to play 30 notes a second and make any kind of music!

For me it is all about feel, phrasing .. and creating MELODY .. and Jerry is up there with the melody gods. I can listen to him all day and all night long ... there is just a timelessness about his playing that elevates a random tune into something greater than it's parts. He just had a way of expressing music that went beyond musical boundaries and took it places where very few people tread.

To feel that and recognise that demands a certain sensitivity in the listener ... and we all know that most of the world do not have that sensitivity simply from the crap they listen to day in and day out .... That .. and people's perceptions and hangups about the Dead's lifestyle surrounding their inception have resulted in Jerry being somewhat typecast and not being appreciated by a wider public ..

Who cares .... we know how good he is.......... :wink:
 #105605  by tcsned
 Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:36 am
The difference in ability level with most of these guys is pretty minuscule. It all boils down to subjectivity and personal preference. Great guitarists come in many varieties. I like improv players but the compose and execute guys are every bit as good and is just as musical as improvisation - just ain't my bag. There are players with better technique than Jerry, there are players that are probably better at improv, there are certainly players that were more consistent but I don't care he's my favorite. It doesn't mean you have to disparage others because you like one guy or girl more. Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, and others have earned their places in the guitarist pantheon, so has Jerry. Placing one in front of the other comes down to intangibles. One of the guys I work with is a big Van Halen fan and we would jokingly go round and round because I told him he wouldn't make my top 10 . . . maybe my top 25. He got kind of pissed at first, now it's become a joke. He's easily good enough to be in the top 5 but I just like other stuff more (though his first 2 albums are game changing). My buddy wouldn't have put Jerry in the top 50 . . . he's a metal head.

It's kind of like this bizarre phenomenon in the bluegrass scene to hold competitions. I've got friends that do this thing (an win) and I never really understood it other than the nice guitar they give away to the winner. 5 different judges would probably yield 5 different winners.

If nothing else, these lists remind me of players I haven't listened to in a long time or new ones I should check out. :cool:
 #105621  by waldo041
 Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:38 pm
if lists are really important, i agree with only one spot.

my list looks like this.

1.) Jimi Hendrix
2.) Jerry Garcia
3.- Infinity) Everybody Else

peace,
waldo
 #105623  by tcsned
 Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:46 pm
waldo041 wrote:if lists are really important, i agree with only one spot.

my list looks like this.

1.) Jimi Hendrix
2.) Jerry Garcia
3.- Infinity) Everybody Else

peace,
waldo
Perfect!
 #105670  by wolftigerrosebud
 Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:00 pm
RS's best guitarists lists suck. No classical guitarists, few jazz guitarists. Very narrow, very commercial scope. Chuck Berry should be in the top 5. Jerry should be, too, just because of how influential he was. Same with Hendrix. Jimmy Page? Great guitarist, but please -- top 20 material at best, IMO. Pat Metheny should be in the top 10, Pete Townshend shouldn't be in the top 100 at all, Keith Richards should be between 30 and 50, Django should be top 10, Jim Hall should be top 20, Wes Montgomery should be top 10, Julian Bream should be top 5 without question, Segovia should be top 10, Clapton shouldn't be in the top 1,000. RS usually gives Jeff Beck a reasonable spot.

Their lists are bullshit. This list ^ is a real list. Not to toot my own horn, but it gives credit where credit is due, it doesn't just pander to guitarists who are very commercially successful. Pete Townshend had a great rhythm tone, but that's it. Nowhere near a guy like Julian Bream, whose music is just absolutely beautiful and as close to technically perfect as is conceivable. Jerry should be in the top 3, always. Gah. Oh well.
 #105684  by ebick
 Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:12 pm
I think their list is not just about raw talent on the guitar, but also includes the musician's impact on the music world.....mind you, I am not saying I agree with their list, but there's no other way that I can arrive at some of their decisions......like I think they had Joni Mitchell ahead of Jerry.......
 #105698  by jester536
 Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:28 am
I'm a little surprised by the derision that Clapton seems to be receiving. Once saw a story where someone had suggested that a new Clapton album should be titled "The Greatest Guitarist In The World"...he would only agree to it if the subtitle was..."There's one in every crowd". How true. There always seems to be someone..even in very small circles... that is a real talent. Look at the quality of some of the players in this forum. I'm glad Matheny and Wes Montgomery have been mentioned. I'm always surprised that David Bromberg isn't mentioned in any of these things...if he was...I missed it. The one reassuring aspect is that Hendrix is always at the top...there is something to be said for that.
 #105702  by Tennessee Jedi
 Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:10 am
wolftigerrosebud wrote:RS's best guitarists lists suck. No classical guitarists, few jazz guitarists. Very narrow, very commercial scope. Chuck Berry should be in the top 5. Jerry should be, too, just because of how influential he was. Same with Hendrix. Jimmy Page? Great guitarist, but please -- top 20 material at best, IMO. Pat Metheny should be in the top 10, Pete Townshend shouldn't be in the top 100 at all, Keith Richards should be between 30 and 50, Django should be top 10, Jim Hall should be top 20, Wes Montgomery should be top 10, Julian Bream should be top 5 without question, Segovia should be top 10, Clapton shouldn't be in the top 1,000. RS usually gives Jeff Beck a reasonable spot.

Their lists are bullshit. This list ^ is a real list. Not to toot my own horn, but it gives credit where credit is due, it doesn't just pander to guitarists who are very commercially successful. Pete Townshend had a great rhythm tone, but that's it. Nowhere near a guy like Julian Bream, whose music is just absolutely beautiful and as close to technically perfect as is conceivable. Jerry should be in the top 3, always. Gah. Oh well.
You mention a lot of great players in your "list "
But it seems you are just as subjective as RS
Pete = Power Chord = modern hard rock
How about Petes compositional abilities ? * Tommy*
No credit in your book for being a original ,genre creating , hard rock pioneer ?
:?:
Maybe just maybe Pete is a little underrated on your list ?
I know these lists are just opinion but - Pete Townshend had a great rhythm tone, but that's it is laughable.
 #105861  by NashvilleMike
 Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:31 pm
Some people have a hard time explaining rock 'n' roll. I don't think anyone can really explain rock 'n' roll. Maybe Pete Townshend, but that's okay. Rock 'n' roll is a lifestyle and a way of thinking... and it's not about money and popularity. Although, some money would be nice. But it's a voice that says, "Here I am... and fuck you if you can't understand me." And one of these people is gonna save the world. And that means that rock 'n' roll can save the world... all of us together. And the chicks are great. But what it all comes down to is that thing. The indefinable thing when people catch something in your music.