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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

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 #114733  by RiverRat
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:05 am
Yankee Tim wrote:Obviously, a moderator didn't like the discussion.
RuKind has some of the most forgiving mods of any site on the Internet. Threads have run off course and became massive flame-fests with little intervention by the mods. The members of the community have long ago set the tone of the conversation here and they do more to police the threads than the mods do.

I belong to some forums where the mods actively patrol and police discussion thread with a heavy hand. Thread are locked and posts deleted nearly every day. That simply doesn't happen here.
 #114762  by tigerstrat
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:54 pm
Pete B. wrote:
Tennessee Jedi wrote: Pete - Was that a Haz you used on your Estimated Bridge vid ?
No, That was the Emma Discombobulator, iirc.
You never see people posting about the Emma D anymore, why is that?
 #114766  by strumminsix
 Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:29 pm
tigerstrat wrote:
Pete B. wrote:
Tennessee Jedi wrote: Pete - Was that a Haz you used on your Estimated Bridge vid ?
No, That was the Emma Discombobulator, iirc.
You never see people posting about the Emma D anymore, why is that?
Curious, you are right. I wonder if the folks that have it just enjoy it and don't talk much. Or maybe they all went and got M3s :)
 #114942  by Yankee Tim
 Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:19 pm
RiverRat wrote:RuKind has some of the most forgiving mods of any site on the Internet. Threads have run off course and became massive flame-fests with little intervention by the mods. The members of the community have long ago set the tone of the conversation here and they do more to police the threads than the mods do.

I belong to some forums where the mods actively patrol and police discussion thread with a heavy hand. Thread are locked and posts deleted nearly every day. That simply doesn't happen here.
Duly noted. But I'm still happy with my Haz. :smile:
 #114946  by Pete B.
 Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:43 pm
You never see people posting about the Emma D anymore, why is that?
Curious, you are right. I wonder if the folks that have it just enjoy it and don't talk much. Or maybe they all went and got M3s :)
I liked the Emma alot.
It's been discontinued.
I would still have one (I actually had two), but I stumbled across an original MuIII at a Guitar shop in Seaside, Oregon, and sold both Emma's to cover the cost of the MuIII.

If anyone in Portland Oregon wants to try a Haz unit, there is currently a HAZ MuIII+ at Old Town Music here in Portland, and another Haz MuIII+ at the Beaverton Guitar Center (30 Day Return Policy - otherwise known as The Free Rental Program!).... the thing is, you can't just try it and say it sucks, you have to read the directions and put the dip-switches where it makes most sence for your desired results, and run it in your OBEL. Then you can do a comparision.
Here is the Manual if you want to get a feel for how it works:
http://www.mu-tron.com/pdf/mu-tron-inst-b.pdf

I picked up a vintage MXR Envelope filter at Old Town Music, and it sounds great to my ear. I will use it for non Mutron events (MuIII's are great but sometimes I need a smaller grab-and-go EF that fits in the guitar case with a coupla cords). It is super conveinient. I am putting a belt-clip on the back so I can wear it like a pocket-knife sheath, and I have a 3-foot TRS cord that I used to use in a Mixer Rack so I can wear it on my belt and run it in the OBEL. That will be fun to try when I get it going!
 #114950  by Yankee Tim
 Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:56 pm
Agree on the DIP switches. They help. And knowing you axe helps even more. When I was playing the HAZ with my Ibanez, I had awesome tone (better than any other EH other than the MUIII in MHO) and knew exactly where I would put the pots for the sound I wanted. But now with the Liger, I'm all over the place and its getting me annoyed. OBEL is going in. This should help, and at least let me relearn the pedal with something that is predictable. I hate to say it, but the Ibanez AF is doing better right now than my Qtron or Haz. Dammit.
 #114952  by playingdead
 Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:45 pm
The mistake I used to make with the envelope filter was endlessly trying different settings trying to set it to open all the way on a sharply picked note, and having an impossible time getting it to happen on both the low E string and above the 12th fret on the high E string. If it sounded great on the low E it wouldn't trigger well on the high notes. And vice versa.

Try setting the envelope so it opens a too easily all over the fretboard, both high and low notes. Then work on adjusting your touch so you're completely controlling how it opens. Pick a little harder way up the fretboard, and a little softer on the lower notes. When you get good at it, you can become very expressive with it, getting it to open just on certain notes in a phrase, or hitting a chord and getting it to close after just the right amount of time on the sustain.

Listen here to this brief excerpt where Jerry clicks it on and then is using his touch to barely allow it to trigger on the low notes, letting it open up on a little two-note phrase mid-neck that he comes back to twice, and then really letting it up for a splattering of high notes. Then he goes back to selectively opening in the midrange (that little phrase again) and then down low and barely lets it open. Twenty seconds using the whole dynamic range of the pedal.

http://leftyguitarsonly.com/vic/envelope.mp3

The OBEL is very helpful, of course.
 #114953  by Yankee Tim
 Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:41 pm
Totally understand and agree. Finding that spot seemed really easy on my Ibanez. Regardless if I used the neck or bridge Pup, as long as the Vol pots were about the same, I could switch or combine pups and the filter opened and closed without having to modify playing style (I'm very use to using my pick/finger attack to open the filter). Now with the Liger and the gazillion pup options, when I go from say bridge to middle, everything changes on the filter so I have to adjust the volume and even the filter to get it back. I guess it's going to take time. But the picking/plucking "strength" is not lost on me, and you did a great job of explaining it. When I let phriends us any of EF, they say they hate them and then I try to tell him its all in the very subtle way you pick the string, but I can't convey it well. Most folks I think don't understand how the pedal works. I mean, a flanger does what it does, like a disty or a delay. But a EF is not an effect as much as it's an instrument controlled by a guitar. Does that make sense?
 #114958  by playingdead
 Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:29 am
The OBEL won't help you out when you change pickups, although in my experience, changing from, say, bridge humbucker to middle single coil doesn't have a huge amount of change on the tone of the envelope filter, just the response of it. I would probably set the pedal for the pickup with the lowest output as it would be the hardest to have it open, and then use your touch when you try other pickups. But the OBEL will take the volume control out of the equation, which is huge for an envelope filter.
 #114962  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:26 am
I was listening to the Dead w/ Warren @ the Spectrum's " last show " ..... he is a great player but he missed the target with his EF tone ... dont know what it was .... Althea ?????????
Been playing a long time - the Mutron sound is still pesky after all these years .... guess I shouldn't be too hard on him.
:-)
 #114964  by Yankee Tim
 Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:28 am
Sounds like I need to break out the soldering tools, review schematics, and get a headache. LoL

Of course, I need to get a pre amp too. Still don't know which (CAE or Waldo's) or if I should add the UGB with that. Waldo's unit seems well received, but I think he still thinks I'm a HAZ secret agent or sumthin.
 #114975  by TI4-1009
 Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:54 am
Nah, I never "got" Warren playing Dead stuff. Just never sounded right.

I was at that Spectrum show.
 #114977  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:29 am
TI4-1009 wrote:Nah, I never "got" Warren playing Dead stuff. Just never sounded right.

I was at that Spectrum show.
My buddy had that show with him this weekend while we were camping
His playing with the DEad has grown on me a bit .... except that EF .... his voice is excellent for the Dead I think ...
:-)