Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #5205  by ssrythm
 Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:34 pm
This place is great. My buds and I have been playing for ~12 years, and during that time, I have tried different combos of amps and fxs trying to dial in that Bobby schwang. My efforts were mostly whim-purchases with blind luck being the determining factor as to how it all ended up. Lately I've had a Boss GT5 with a Mesa DC5. I basically now just plug into the Boogie as it sounds the best. But low and behold I've found this place, and I have learned a ton. I just purchased an Ibanez UE400 and I am looking for an intersound IVP. The rest of the rig will fall into place, but it looks like the IVP is going to be the difficult piece to secure. My question is does anyone here know where I can find one, or does anyone on here want to part with theirs? Is there an analog pre-amp out there that can reasonably recreate what the IVP does? Any suggestions on how I can structure my rig to allow for the 70's Bobby sound tweaking will be much appreciated. Thanks in advance, E.

 #5217  by strumminsix
 Sun Apr 30, 2006 8:02 pm
I had an IVP and sold it (I know we were PM'ing but figured it might be helpful for others).

The reason is that I was looking for more of a 73-77 Bobby sound.

And that definately is not the IVP.

I'm playing a Mesa Lonestar know and barely any effects.

From there alot of it is in the fingers and how you shape the chords with relation to the next chords in the progression.

An IVP will get you that early 80s Bobby tone.

Be sure that is what you are after.
 #5225  by Laytonco
 Mon May 01, 2006 6:50 am
Agreed. Less is more when it comes to that early Bob sound. I use a Heritage boutique amp, with EQ and that's it for the most part. Sometimes I'll kick in a little TS808 overdrive or a Qtron for some touch wah. In fact, I just started using the Qtron on Eyes. What a crazy sound!

 #5226  by strumminsix
 Mon May 01, 2006 7:41 am
Agreed, Laytonco.

Here is my recipe:

Mid 70s
Clean amp, slightly driven amp, some phaser / auto wah

Late 80s
Same as mid 70s but add chorus, tremolo & delay

Bob did use a good amount of distortion for some songs but I never really cared for it myself. I think if you have multiple drummers then it can work.

 #5232  by ssrythm
 Mon May 01, 2006 12:16 pm
Ok, Cool. My first shows attended were in 88 and that is about the time they picked me up and swept me away. I have been playing since that time also, and I originally tried to emulate the sound of that time. As the years went on, I have inched back to nearly no effects at all through my Boogie's rythm channel and relied more on how I played to achieve what I want. Still, there are some situations where I want to get freaky spacy with it and want to do it a little more subtley (how the heck do you spell that?) than what I'm getting out of my GT5 effects. I just picked up a UE-400 and would like to get the ad230 to compliment it. If I cant find a AD 230, what analog delay do y'all recommend? Until then, I'll just keep working the tones out of this Boogie; it sounds superb now with the old Daion HH555 I recently acquired. Again, I appreciate all of y'alls input here and on the rest of this forum.

 #5233  by ssrythm
 Mon May 01, 2006 12:26 pm
strummin six wrote:
don't forget you will need
reverb unit
power amp

Yeah, I'm trying like heck to find an AD230. I will be picking up a furman reverb also. Beyond my boogie dc5 which suits where I am playing and living right now, what poweramp/cab combo do you suggest, and what advantages will this give me over the Boogie I now have? I've been playing for a while, but I am a toddler when it comes to understanding equipment ins and outs, so explain it to me like I don't know diddly about it; basically I don't. Thanks

 #5234  by tigerstrat
 Mon May 01, 2006 1:38 pm
Bob using auto wah in the 70's- are you referring to an envelope filter? I don't recall hearing Weir use one much before the late 80's. In the late 70's he had a custom wah/phaser controller built by Cutler: intstead of an automatic phase sweep, it was controlled by foot.

And my 2 cents: if you aren't playing in arenas all the time, that DC-5 might do just fine for you ! 50 watts, right? Spring reverb? What brand/model# of speaker? You might experiment with different ones to see if it tweaks the amp a little bit brighter or warmer or whatever you need.

It's really all in the fingers, and the wild look in the eye, the guttural "HAH!!!"

What the hell was up with that Peavey he had onstage in 1978?

 #5239  by strumminsix
 Mon May 01, 2006 3:23 pm
Mind you, I use effects lightly.

Phaser, lightly, works great for Scarlet.

Auto/Wah, set lightly, works great for Estimated.

I can definately hear a filter effects on Bobby's guitar during these two songs. What he exactly used, I cannot be certain. However, the trick to my replcating his tones start with a well dialed in amp and very light effects.

Poweramps - in that era, Bob used a Godzilla 1000W solid state amp. I've been using TubeWorks guitar poweramps for years now with incredible results. I own 2, picked up the first for $225, the second for $70. It all depends how the used market is.

Speakers, your call. I am in love with Eminence Cannibas Rex speakers. A pair of these in a closed back 2x12 cab and you will be set!

 #5240  by waldo041
 Mon May 01, 2006 4:09 pm
Last edited by waldo041 on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 #5241  by tigerstrat
 Mon May 01, 2006 4:12 pm
I cannot hear any envelope applied to Bob's sound on any versions of Estimated... just listened to bits from 5/19/77, 11/9/79 & 2/27/81. Generally, I have only heard Bob use EF on tunes where Jerry didn't, such as China Cat or He's Gone, and then only sporadically.

On Estimated, I hear some funky, edgy compression, and a little phase shifting (heavier/more footloose on the bridge sections)

 #5248  by strumminsix
 Mon May 01, 2006 7:11 pm
Well, I used filter purposely since Phasers, Wahs and ECF all fall under that category.

Where I hear it is during the verses.

I don't hear compression since he strums F#m the 1 and comes back with choppy for the AND 5 AND 6 then an F#sus4 type on AND 7 AND.

(yes, the AND s above were for the count)

To my ears, a comp of some kind would not have had the very natural fade out after the 1. Usually comps seem to help sustain which is not what I hear.

Then again, all ears are different as well as versions.

 #5253  by tigerstrat
 Tue May 02, 2006 11:44 am
Not sure if I follow your count- looks like you are treating each measure as one half? Each line of the verse is two 7/4 measures by my reckoning.

The Ibanez/Maxon envelope is the AF-9, but I sure am not hearing any of it from Bob on any late 70's/early 80s Estimateds, just lots of shimmery, edgy, chords and licks, and yup, plenty of the hanging, sustaining effect of a compressor- quite the opposite of the vocal-y rounding-off of an envelope. It's Jerry using the envelope filter on this song!

 #5254  by waldo041
 Tue May 02, 2006 11:53 am
Last edited by waldo041 on Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 #5255  by tigerstrat
 Tue May 02, 2006 12:25 pm
Cool! Viewing excuses...

Hey I'm just trying to call it like I hear it, and I am quite open to being proven incorrect- I just like to discuss these things until they are irrefutable. I admit I've put a very small amount of time into researching Bobby's gear compared to Jerry's (especially since JG's the part I play in my band), especially post-Keith stuff.

The 1000w Godzilla came into play in 1978- before that, it had been the 600w MC2300 since early 1973. Before that, 1969-ish to 1972, it had been tube McIntosh's.

If you really want/need to have a separate power amp and speaker cab, why lug around an ancient hard to find 120lb+ behemoth of a power amp, when there several different modern compact lightweight units that can do the same job? Just make sure it has a good slew rate... and start using earplugs.

 #5256  by strumminsix
 Tue May 02, 2006 1:12 pm
tigerstrat, I play the role of Bobby in my band.

Our JG uses an EH envelope filter and it sounds like JG.

I dial in filter to mix in at like 30% of my signal and it sounds nothing like the envelope of my counterpart and just adds that unique sound with resonation that sounds so rich at times.