[RiverRat]

Ironically, no one has EVER thought to reuse this band's name in 21 years.


They have a great song titled ""Beating up Hippies for their Drugs at a Phish Concert""

[Mick]

Not that I'm dying to jump into what is obviously someone else's fray, but at some point I find it difficult to hold my tongue. With reference to this:

There are other Dead Ahead's out there. ones with actual websites, were not the only one. does that bother me? no. ITS JUST A BAND NAME! we are not playing the shorline or red rocks or at a jai alai somewhere, lol. we are 4 guys just playing around cleveland! Bands like them don't spend needless hours and money on lawyers to go after 4 guys playing at a dive bar, that just doesn't make any sense....its not practical. If we were trying to sell tickets and t-shirts or merch then i could see a problem, but were not.

Looks like the old "Other people are doing it, so it's OK" defense. Somewhere along my "path to enlightenment", I came to the conclusion that this is a very weak defense.

Anyone who has been around this board for a while knows that Chuckles' posting style is at times.....um.....direct. That said, you came on here asking about using the name "Dead Ahead", and when you were told someone else had gone to the effort to register that name, you said you were going to continue using it. Regardless of your reasons why, I fail to see why you would be surprised that other people on the board would view that behavior as jerky to another artist/band. You are going to do what you are going to do, but when you air your dirty laundry in public, there will always be those who sneer, sometimes, um, directly.

[LazyLightnin]

Looks like the old "Other people are doing it, so it's OK" defense. Somewhere along my "path to enlightenment", I came to the conclusion that this is a very weak defense.

where do some of you come up with logic like this? how does critiquing my writing and being so self serving in this comment help anybody but yourself? why would you come in here, state the obvious and come off as pretentious as you have? you are not a trademark expert, all of a sudden all these "experts" come crawling outta the woodwork just to tell me I'm wrong and then when i don't act , do or say what you want me to you just needlessly bash me? how is that logical at all? what are you getting out of this? , because your not proving anything and if you choose to dialogue with me in such a manner as that then i wont even consider your argument. why should i listen to what you have to say if you won't afford me the same level of respect that i give you?

so you just assume that the other band is exempt from inquiring about the name? they never asked me about it and i've used it since before their trademark, as the other Dead Aheads have. apparently they didn't follow the logic you show neither. so all the other dead aheads have to change what they've been doing since who knows when just because some big names say it is so?
wouldn't it be class of them to at least ask, inquire or make an offer for the title? does it not seem like a strongarm power move? aren't they saying screw all those other guys already using the band name, we're gonna use it now? isn't that stealing? you don't see that as being "jerky to another artist/band"? how would you feel if someone just pulled the carpet out from under your feet like that? i bet you wouldn't like it and would want to argue your point, or would you just subserviently go about your business following the "suggestions" that a handful of people gave? where is the logic in this?

I fail to see why you would be surprised

where does it say that i was surprised? I was surprised that someone would go to such lengths as name calling and finger pointing.

but when you air your dirty laundry in public, there will always be those who sneer, sometimes, um, directly.

yes, yes, what is your point? so you stopped by just to state the obvious and raise a dust cloud in here? why poke a dead horse with a stick other than to make self serving commentary? i hope you feel better, i hope you can sleep at night - i know i can.

"Other people are doing it, so it's OK"

as far as you know i could be the first person to use the name, i obviously used it before the other band. i am the "other people" not the other way around. again backwards.

Not that I'm dying to jump into what is obviously someone else's fray

but you are, you contradict yourself in this opening statement.

the situation is like paradigm, no one has the correct answer. you are assuming that the other band is doing all good all the time, but that is not the case, human nature doesn't allow for it. not only that but you are assuming that i am at fault for something which i am not.

why don't you talk about music and guitar with me instead of theorizing a moot point?

[High Peaks]

iI guess my input here is.... Who the hell cares.....

1.) Dead Ahead, or Deadahead Band--- Is already a rip off, no matter who uses it, the Shwag or anyone else. If noone remembers, there was a smokin VHS tape that came out with that name. So its already been done. Maybe Bobby and Phil should give the Shwag a hard tme

2.) Just because you post on RUKIND or gearheads or any other site like this, doesn't make anyone more of a HEAD than someone else. Infact after reading this thread, I have come to the conclusion that there are people here who don't even understand what it was like in the day.
There was a prevailing wind of kindness and acceptance.

I didn't find any of what Lazylightning said offensive by any means. He voiced his ideas and argument in an articulate and non-offensive manner. Chuckles on the other hand came off looking like a 23 year old poser who wishes he had a clue with how to treat someone.

I don't care if its the Shwag, DSO, tricksters or any of them. Noone owes them anything but respect. Keeping the torch alive???? Well theres 4 guys who would beg to differ on that. Bobby, Phil, Mickey and Billy. I always viewe them as the go to guys for that.

Anyway I don't know either of you from a hole in the wall, but from an outside perspective, Thats my .02

[Chuckles]

Back in the day? After over 200 shows between '80 and '95, I recall kindness and great times as well as heroin and gate-crashers. Romanticized versions of the scene don't hold a lot of water with me.

Fwiw, I think LL and I are cool; so should the rest of you be. We had a flame war and it is what it is. I don't think either of us would back down from our positions, but I maintain that if a band took the time to register the mark, they ought to have exclusive rights to it. That someone failed to take the same action prior does not absolve them of their obligation to discontinue the use of the name.

[High Peaks]

Couldn't agree more. well put.

[RiverRat]

Good news for The Schwag... this thread will make great evidence since it's public record:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=de ... =&aql=&oq=

So now there is NO Chance you can claim ignorance of the facts... this thread will prove that you deliberately AND maliciously infringed on their legal trademark.

[Chuckles]

Um...

This is an exchange I had today with a leading intellectual property attorney practicing here in DC:

Me:

Further, and completely inappropriately, can you offer some free advice? Specifically, if a band (not mine) has operated for years under a name that another band has subsequently trademarked, is the band that doesn't hold the mark liable for infringement if they continue using the name under the law? This is an ongoing argument I'm engaged in on a music board... I seem to be arguing that they are, indeed, liable and obligated to cease use of the name.

Him:

As for your question, if all this is in the United States the prior user of the band name would have the right to continue using the name in the areas where they actually used and had a reputation prior to the second user registering the name at the Trademark Office. Depending on how old the second user's trademark registration is, the prior user of the name might actually be able to cancel the second user's trademark registration and file suit in court to prevent them from continuing to use the name. This is all general information; we should talk and you can give me more details and I would be happy to tell you more.

So... looks like it may be the Schwag who are screwed!

[WilliamC]

Well, who'd a thunk THAT!

So Chuckles - I read that as saying the

1) band who registered the name as a trademark is fine
2) the band who previously used the name in another part of the country is fine
3) the band in (2) might be able to invalidate the trademark registration but would have to go to court to stop the band in (1) using the name
4) Its more complicated than 1-3

Guess it goes to show that actual legal training IS more important than the ability to do a Google search.

[Mick]

Looks like the old "Other people are doing it, so it's OK" defense. Somewhere along my "path to enlightenment", I came to the conclusion that this is a very weak defense.

where do some of you come up with logic like this? how does critiquing my writing and being so self serving in this comment help anybody but yourself?

I haven't critiqued your writing, and generally find such efforts to be pointless on message boards anyway. Most people are just typing what is coming off the top of their head, and pay little attention to spelling, grammar, structure etc. I make at least some effort to pay attention to that, but I make tons of mistakes anyway. I do a fair amount of editing in my business, but only when I am ASKED to critique, do I critique.

why would you come in here, state the obvious and come off as pretentious as you have?

Oh, I don't know, to stop the whining maybe? I have obviously failed at that. Pretentious? You brought up the "path to enlightenment".

you are not a trademark expert,

I'm not? How do you know this? Please list all topics on which I am and am not an expert. I am sure I will find that educational.

all of a sudden all these "experts" come crawling outta the woodwork just to tell me I'm wrong and then when i don't act , do or say what you want me to you just needlessly bash me? how is that logical at all?

I don't see where I bashed you. Like I said, you are going to do what you are going to do. But you asked a question, and didn't like the answer, and plan to just go on with unchanged behavior. So be it, and I don't really care. But I do wonder why you bothered to ask in the first place.

what are you getting out of this?

Nothing, obviously. Same as you.

, because your not proving anything and if you choose to dialogue with me in such a manner as that then i wont even consider your argument.

I wasn't looking for an argument, but apparently you are. I just stated my opinion, that is all.

why should i listen to what you have to say

Well, since you haven't listened to anyone else, I am sure I don't know why you should listen to me.

if you won't afford me the same level of respect that i give you?

If you read what I posted carefully, I think you will find I did not disrespect you.

so you just assume that the other band is exempt from inquiring about the name? they never asked me about it and i've used it since before their trademark, as the other Dead Aheads have. apparently they didn't follow the logic you show neither. so all the other dead aheads have to change what they've been doing since who knows when just because some big names say it is so?

Well, now, I could go on and tell you how I make my living, and my experiences in courtrooms and what not, but you have already decided that I am not an expert and that you shouldn't listen to me, so all that would just be a waste of good typing, and I hate wasting good typing.

wouldn't it be class of them to at least ask, inquire or make an offer for the title?

You contradict yourself here. You have said others have used, and continue to use, the name, so to whom should they extend an offer even if they were inclined to do so?

does it not seem like a strongarm power move? aren't they saying screw all those other guys already using the band name, we're gonna use it now? isn't that stealing?

Aren't you doing the same thing?

you don't see that as being "jerky to another artist/band"? how would you feel if someone just pulled the carpet out from under your feet like that? i bet you wouldn't like it and would want to argue your point, or would you just subserviently go about your business following the "suggestions" that a handful of people gave? where is the logic in this?

Like I said, I've been down these roads many times, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. The rug has been pulled out from under me many times along the way, and sometimes it really sucks. But if you ever want to "own" something that is intangible, there have to be rules. You can chose to follow them, or not. Your choice. When you get to a point where you have made your living with intellectual property for a few decades, you may find you will have a different view. Or maybe not.

where does it say that i was surprised? I was surprised that someone would go to such lengths as name calling and finger pointing.

Again, read what I wrote. I didn't call anybody names.

yes, yes, what is your point? so you stopped by just to state the obvious and raise a dust cloud in here? why poke a dead horse with a stick other than to make self serving commentary? i hope you feel better, i hope you can sleep at night - i know i can.

I sleep just fine at night, thank you.

as far as you know i could be the first person to use the name, i obviously used it before the other band. i am the "other people" not the other way around. again backwards.

Again, you seem to know what I do and don't know. This is the second time in this thread that this has happened, and has happened other times on this board. It truly is amazing how some of you know exactly what it is that I do and don't know. Please, for the sake of the other posters here, run down my resume for them to enlighten them as to what it is that I do and don't know. I will find that entertaining.

the situation is like paradigm, no one has the correct answer. you are assuming that the other band is doing all good all the time, but that is not the case, human nature doesn't allow for it. not only that but you are assuming that i am at fault for something which i am not.

Wow, two more times you know what I am thinking! This is just amazing. Especially in light of the fact that nothing in my post would indicate that I am assuming either of those things. Wait, quick, tell me what my grandmother's birthday was! I know you know it! Come on and impress me. In fact, if you can tell me either grandmother's birthday, I'll agree that you are right on all counts. Deal?

why don't you talk about music and guitar with me instead of theorizing a moot point?

You asked the question that started this thread.....

[LazyLightnin]

Pretentious? You brought up the "path to enlightenment".

Frankly in a free society everyone should have an idea about it. it is what our Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independance are loosely based on. if you've ever attended high school you should at least have somewhat of an idea about upon its core values. aren't we taking our freedom for granted if we choose to ignore its implications?

Oh, I don't know, to stop the whining maybe?

in case you hadn't noticed, this thread had been dead for long enough. nobody whined. how are you stopping anything if it's already been resolved? me and chuckles resolved our differences - we have nothing else to talk about other than music, guitar and friends, times etc...
though i value your opinion on the matter, it may have been more appropriate to pm with with your ideas. i'll tell you this -i never whined for a second.

i wrote some replies and used the enlightenment as a template - you in your last post made a less than "kind" comment on just that. so how are you not critiquing my writing? you cant just sneek out of that one.

amazing that a board entitled "RUKIND" could produce so many who are not. silly.

you are not a trademark expert

an educated guess since you never provided me with any useful information except put into different words what others have suggested. you look as though you wanted to blow off some steam on the matter. well instead of opening a dialogue that had been resolved in a public format, maybe you could have pm'd me.

just needlessly bash me?

my reply is meant mainly for the broader spectrum of the subject. don't be self serving and beleive that just because you posted last means that everything i say is directed at you - there are other people invovled in this discussion - maybe you didnt notice that.

what are you getting out of this?
Nothing, obviously. Same as you.

and this is just way too obvious

but at some point I find it difficult to hold my tongue.

so you did get something out of this - you had been holding your tounge. you fealt inside you needed to say something. again contadicting yourself and making it way too obvious.

[Again, you seem to know what I do and don't know. This is the second time in this thread that this has happened, and has happened other times on this board. It truly is amazing how some of you know exactly what it is that I do and don't know. Please, for the sake of the other posters here, run down my resume for them to enlighten them as to what it is that I do and don't know. I will find that entertaining/quote]

all of this is completely irrelevant. you obviously play an instrument and like the Dead. i dont need/want to know anything more about you. A vain and selfish attempt to make this about YOU, which it is not.

Wow, two more times you know what I am thinking! This is just amazing. Especially in light of the fact that nothing in my post would indicate that I am assuming either of those things. Wait, quick, tell me what my grandmother's birthday was! I know you know it! Come on and impress me. In fact, if you can tell me either grandmother's birthday, I'll agree that you are right on all counts. Deal?

needless ridiculous fluff.

But I do wonder why you bothered to ask in the first place.

how could you possibly wonder that? didnt you read my very first post? im not repeating it again..

Him: As for your question, if all this is in the United States the prior user of the band name would have the right to continue using the name in the areas where they actually used and had a reputation prior to the second user registering the name at the Trademark Office. Depending on how old the second user's trademark registration is, the prior user of the name might actually be able to cancel the second user's trademark registration and file suit in court to prevent them from continuing to use the name. This is all general information; we should talk and you can give me more details and I would be happy to tell you more.
So... looks like it may be the Schwag who are screwed!

this is exactly what my legal adviser told me. i rest on that conclusion.

RiverRat: So now there is NO Chance you can claim ignorance of the facts... this thread will prove that you deliberately AND maliciously infringed on their legal trademark.

totally innacurate. also the decisions and legal ramifications are really none of your business. i asked for advice, it turned into a discussion and a conclusion was made - nothing more.
It really seems like you have it in for me. you can go ahead and stop any communication me in the future river rat - since your intentions are DELIBERATE AND MALICIOUS by nature of your wording. you are making a huge claim that you know nothing about. you are in no more better position to give advice. the only folks that can give me legitimate advice are those involved in the repsected trades that this matter may invlove. as you can see the legal rhetoric is much more different and complicated than you assume. how easy for you to just point a finger and form an opinion without any real knowledge.

Aren't you doing the same thing?

nope. i am a tiny entity compared to a larger apparently almost corporate business venture.

all in all im shocked at times in the face of disunity here. many of you have forgotten your core values and why we are even here. maybe i was naive in thinking that this was a place of friendship and comradery. I used to think that this board was the perfect place to have an introspective discussion, free of any "unkind" rhetoric where we as people with common interest would be more than happy to think about a subject and voice an opinion. i never had anything but good intentions when i created this topic and that remains unchanged. how disparaging it is to find out that, even here on a site called rukind, i can go about with good intentions and have it result in negativity bordering on absurdity, people wishing me bad things and general dislike. these are not the values i attempt to practice with my friends here.

and though i try and make good when i can , this situation rings so true the differentiating roles that values and morality play for everyone. maybe i put too much trust and faith and in the folks around here, i am saddened by the results. and the results seem all to typical, observe what Machiavelli wrote:

"For if a man makes a vocation of being good at all times will become the ruin amongst so many that are not good."

this statement has a double meaning, you have to read it twice to get it. depending on where your values and morals stand it will mean a different thing to everyone. but it is important to understand what is being said here because it is very indicitive to the human nature being displayed in this topic.

alas, i find myself with a very much different view of this board. what a goddamn shame.

[Mick]

Frankly in a free society everyone should have an idea about it. it is what our Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independance are loosely based on. if you've ever attended high school you should at least have somewhat of an idea about upon its core values. aren't we taking our freedom for granted if we choose to ignore its implications?

This, from a guy who says MY posts are pretentious and insulting. Too funny. Or maybe not.

in case you hadn't noticed, this thread had been dead for long enough.

Honestly, I am not in the habit of checking the dates on every post before I post in response. I get limited time to read the boards, and sometimes it is months before I get back around to some threads. So, I went back and checked how long this thread had been "dead" when I threw my $0.02 in. The answer: less than a week. If that is too long for you, get a life.

though i value your opinion on the matter,

Oh, now you value my opinion? That wasn't the case in your last post.

it may have been more appropriate to pm with with your ideas.

It may have been more appropriate for you to ask for help from knowledgable folks through pm if you couldn't handle the responses you got in an open thread.

i'll tell you this -i never whined for a second.

Perspective is everything.

i wrote some replies and used the enlightenment as a template - you in your last post made a less than "kind" comment on just that.

Excuse me? You said I was being pretentious. I just pointed out that criticizing other posters for your perception that they lack a grasp of the "path to enlightenment" makes you a hypocrit when you say that.

so how are you not critiquing my writing? you cant just sneek out of that one.

I am not trying to sneek (sic) out on anything. Nor am I trying to sneak out on anything. But now that you have brought this up, and can't let this go, I'll say it: Your writing sucks. I would bet Chuckles was being facetious when he complimented your "verbal capabilities". Like I said, I don't particularly care, and generally don't spend my time on this (although I am clearly making an exception here), but that is my opinion as well. Until THIS paragraph, I have not critiqued your writing, but I have commented on your view of things, there is a differnce. One is commenting on the content, the other is commenting on the vehicle.

you are not a trademark expert

an educated guess since you never provided me with any useful information except put into different words what others have suggested. you look as though you wanted to blow off some steam on the matter. well instead of opening a dialogue that had been resolved in a public format, maybe you could have pm'd me.

I have no interest in "blowing off steam", nor would I have any steam about some guy who finds out that other bands are using the band name his band is using, that one of those bands has registered the mark, and with no apparent idea of how long that band had been using the name before their registration became official, thinks it is just A-OK to keep using that name because others are doing it. To paraphrase what I said earlier: You are not happy with the reaction you got in this thread, but from where I sit, you got exactly what you deserved. You can say I am not "kind", call me names, accuse me of calling you names, and whine all you want, but the facts remain, that is all I said. If you don't like it, don't read my posts. I really wouldn't give a crap.

[Again, you seem to know what I do and don't know. This is the second time in this thread that this has happened, and has happened other times on this board. It truly is amazing how some of you know exactly what it is that I do and don't know. Please, for the sake of the other posters here, run down my resume for them to enlighten them as to what it is that I do and don't know. I will find that entertaining/quote]

all of this is completely irrelevant. you obviously play an instrument and like the Dead. i dont need/want to know anything more about you. A vain and selfish attempt to make this about YOU, which it is not.

Right, like I would want this to be about me. You have a strange view of the world, that is for sure. And once again, you claim to know what I am thinking. At this point, it isn't surprising, and the entertainment value is waning quickly.

Him: As for your question, if all this is in the United States the prior user of the band name would have the right to continue using the name in the areas where they actually used and had a reputation prior to the second user registering the name at the Trademark Office. Depending on how old the second user's trademark registration is, the prior user of the name might actually be able to cancel the second user's trademark registration and file suit in court to prevent them from continuing to use the name. This is all general information; we should talk and you can give me more details and I would be happy to tell you more.
So... looks like it may be the Schwag who are screwed!

this is exactly what my legal adviser told me. i rest on that conclusion.

Great. I wish you the best with that. No need to check into anything further either. Just drive on.

how easy for you to just point a finger and form an opinion without any real knowledge.

Wait, just a little more entertainment value. YOU claiming someone is pointing a finger without any knowledge? Now THAT is funny!

Aren't you doing the same thing?

nope. i am a tiny entity compared to a larger apparently almost corporate business venture.

Oh, I see. It's OK because the other party is a corporation, right? Or is it because they are bigger? Or is it both?

all in all im shocked at times in the face of disunity here. many of you have forgotten your core values and why we are even here. maybe i was naive in thinking that this was a place of friendship and comradery. I used to think that this board was the perfect place to have an introspective discussion, free of any "unkind" rhetoric where we as people with common interest would be more than happy to think about a subject and voice an opinion. i never had anything but good intentions when i created this topic and that remains unchanged.

This from a guy who has had both guns out blazing since the beginning of this thread! Again, more entertainment!!!

how disparaging it is to find out that, even here on a site called rukind, i can go about with good intentions and have it result in negativity bordering on absurdity, people wishing me bad things and general dislike. these are not the values i attempt to practice with my friends here.

No, of course not. But maybe, just maybe, you could hold back on comments like "if you've ever attended high school, you should at least have some idea about....." and your intentions to be good and kind to your fellow-man might come through a little clearer. Just a suggestion though.

and though i try and make good when i can , this situation rings so true the differentiating roles that values and morality play for everyone. maybe i put too much trust and faith and in the folks around here, i am saddened by the results. and the results seem all to typical, observe what Machiavelli wrote:

"For if a man makes a vocation of being good at all times will become the ruin amongst so many that are not good."

this statement has a double meaning, you have to read it twice to get it. depending on where your values and morals stand it will mean a different thing to everyone. but it is important to understand what is being said here because it is very indicitive to the human nature being displayed in this topic.

alas, i find myself with a very much different view of this board. what a goddamn shame.

And then he quotes Machiavelli. I am starting to think that "Lazy Lightning" is some sort of cartoon character trying to get a reaction. Well, it was fun while it lasted.

[LazyLightnin]

I'm not even going to get into all this quoting you and quoting me, because you have no frame of reference at all. ive already spent a ton of time disproving many of you who wish to have negative things happen to me - what a bag of shit.

in reference to almost everything youve pointed out:

YOU HAVE NOT READ THE POSTS!

how can i make this more clear? you are saying and insinuating things that are so contrary to what weve discussed and things that i've said. most of what you are saying are "twists" of truth to what has happened here. if your not going to take the time to actually know whats going on then why are you here? why the snide comment?

you want pretentious? then have an intellectual conversation with me and ill eat you for breakfast.

stop tugging on my coatsleeves like a 5 year old and YOU get a life! you think i like having to come in here and defend myself against against all these naysayers? especially the ones that have been presented with LAW and still don't get it? it takes twice as much thinking to answer posts without name calling and bashing - at least i put the time into it, at least i thought things through before i made claims or told someone they were wrong. you want to argue that? THEN READ THE %^#$@%^#$ POSTS! you clearly haven't.

did you get confused by my writing? did it boggle you? not make sense? well thats not my fault! step out of the kitchen and take a hike because most of what you are saying has no rock to stand on - because you clearly HAVEN'T READ THE POSTS!

ive met with legal conultation...i even posted that i had and explained in LAMENS TERMS what the deal was and yet i still get:

Good news for The Schwag... this thread will make great evidence since it's public record:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=de ... =&aql=&oq=

So now there is NO Chance you can claim ignorance of the facts... this thread will prove that you deliberately AND maliciously infringed on their legal trademark.

this riverrat guy is the making the biggest ass of himself than any of you combined! what a load of crap - after all this, after all the laws and situations discussed how utterly mindless to even say something like this - dude rat fink or whoever you are: there is absolutely nothing illegal happening here by either band, in fact if that band came here and used my band name i'd have leverage to file suit for damages - how you like that? i advise you to float downstream a little more - and out of the thread. this is the kind of mindnumbing stupidity that is slowly making me think that most people here aren't what they seem or claim to be.

life is but a dream isn't it?

after 6 years here and almost 700 posts, the few of you who have ruined so much are convincing me that actual real in the flesh people are what really matter. I can't beleive i was so stupid to think i would get help and support from this community - what a bunch of bullshit - i find out that i can't trust any of you - in fact as soon as i did i got negative feedback and overtones, is this the kind of face you want new folks to see? who would want to come in here and deal with you people?

[High Peaks]

Don't give up on everyone bro. I try to steer clear of the foolishness and listen to the people here who I respect and am sure they know what they are talking about.

Waldo, TS, Vic , Scott, Johnarob, rusty, pete and a few others.

This forum has kind of followed the same path as Grateful dead tour did. It started with all the real Heads/players who really loved the music and strived to achieve the tones the Boys got. Then more people filtered in, then more. Then the next thing you know a vintage Twin costs $1200 on Ebay. A Mutron III costs $500. Ect....

So I kind of liken the RUKIND of 2010 to the Lot scene of 1989-1995. Probably in the 91 era right now.

Still love it, you just need to keep your head about you to look for the seeds.

[tigerstrat]

Can't believe anyone gives a crap what LL calls his band.

Why not give it a rest already or go bother some of the Uncle John's Bands, or Jerry's Kidses, or Deadbeatses other duplicately-named bands that (by your apparent standards) have been ripping each other off for decades?