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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #11728  by d-v-s
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:44 am
Ok, I've stumped myself today while thinking of music theory. So, a G-chord is made up of G, B, and D, right. A normal open G chord would look like this:

E|--3--
B|--0--
G|--0--
D|--0--
A|--2--
E|--3--

Now, let's say that instead of playing the open B, you were to play a D on the B-string, like this:

E|--3--
B|--3--
G|--0--
D|--0--
A|--2--
E|--3--

You've still got all the notes of the G-chord, but instead of 3 G's, 2 B's and a D, you've got 3 G's, 2 D's and a B. So, you've got more sound on the 5th than the 3rd. Is this still a G-chord, or is it called something else?

 #11729  by ded1hed
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:06 am
i dont know about the theory part, but it seems like when i was learning people told me that that was the "bluegrass g" or full g. kinda like a c chord with a g bass note, is called a full c in some circles around here.

---0-------------------
---1-------------------
---0-------------------
---2-------------------
---3-------------------
---3-------------------

now that i think about it, this would be called a c/g would it not? it has all the notes of the regular c chord with one extra g in there.
the g has all the original notes with an extra d in it. so would it be some form of a g/d? i thought slash chords were only used to describe bass notes..............c/g-> c chord with a g bass note.

this is precisely why i get frustrated with music theory the chords are easy , the melody with these chords is easy to make, but theory can make the whole thing a mystery.

 #11730  by strumminsix
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:39 am
Both of those are G chords.

As I understand it, when you strum the 1 first and only 3s and 5s follow it's a standard major.

If you play anything else first it's called 2 different things:
Inversions playing it 5-1-3
or slashed with the bass note following --> C/G

Personally, I usually think of them as inversions if the "bass note" is the 3 of 5.

 #11731  by gr8fulbluz
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:31 am
Gets me a thinkin about the 'cowboy' or open chords and theory.
This is a G as well, whats the order 1/5/1/3/5/1 .?. i think?

E|-3-
B|-3-
G|-4-
D|-5-
A|-5-
E|-3-

but my theory is not so good anymore, something I need to refresh constantly. And seeing this helps, as I have been working on arpeggios I was just thinking yesterday about the order of notes and Inversions. I just have no memory left in my head sometimes
:cool: :-?

 #11734  by wisedyes
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:06 am
Just a G chord with an added 5th. Since the 5th is diatonic to the chord, it doesn't change the name or spelling. It really doesn't even add much in the way of coloring, you are just trading a 3rd for a 5th.

The name / spelling of a chord only changes when you add in something outside of the 1-3-5 formula.

 #11735  by eyeprod
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:39 am
what wisedyes said

 #11742  by mttourpro
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:57 pm
Not that this is important or even useful, but as far as classical "harmony-theory" goes, when you play a basic chord and start on the 3rd (say, EGC for a C chord), then it's called a C "6-3".....if you start on the 5th (GCE) it's called a "6-4". They get those names because of the intervals between the notes in the chord, i.e.there's a 6th between the E and C and a 3rd between the E and G for the "6-3".

Same difference for the "6-4".

I only refer to a chord as, say a C/G or a C/E when the base note (left hand on piano) is a G or E and you're actually playing a C (whatever the inversion may be) chord up top.

 #11754  by jackaroe1276
 Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:32 pm
ded1hed wrote:i dont know about the theory part, but it seems like when i was learning people told me that that was the "bluegrass g" or full g. kinda like a c chord with a g bass note, is called a full c in some circles around here.

---0-------------------
---1-------------------
---0-------------------
---2-------------------
---3-------------------
---3-------------------

now that i think about it, this would be called a c/g would it not?
Not really, although alot of people refer to it that way. If you think about it, a C triad is simple CEG. So from low to high your simple full C chord is CGECE. The next note to continue the chord would be G, or the 3rd fret of the 1st string (little E). When playing the 3rd fret of the 5th string in a full C chord, you are simple starting at at the 5th Of a lower C scale and continuing through it. It's still just a C chord but with more range.
 #12207  by lyghtningod
 Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:58 pm
The difference to me betweeen the two G chords is that the second one, with the extra D is almost a power chord.

When you take the third out, it leaves you a root and fifth, also called a power chord.

When I play bluegrass, I always play a G that way. It cleans up the rhythm sound, and by muting the low B note on the A string it becomes a full on power chord, ie no third.
There are several advantages to that. If you are playing rock, then the amps handle the tones better.

If you play bluegrass, it just plain sounds better. I think it may be that since the third defines the tonality, leaving it out of the rhtyhm makes the soloist sound better, there is no conflicting tones to confuse the ear.

 #12287  by myoung6923
 Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:02 pm
They are both G chords just one with a slightly different voicing.

All major chords are just R-3-5 right? So playing those same notes in a different position - say 3-R-5, or 3-R-5-R are still the same chord just voiced differently. They are still made up of only the R-3-5 members of the original chord.

 #12419  by jahozer
 Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:43 pm
I have heard that G referred to as a modal G or a Beatles G. But yeah its just a G. Its cool sounding, in that open position, but as far as general arranging practices, 5ths are hardly ever doubled, and if anything has to be ommitted, a 5th is the first to go...
If you ever have gone throught the torture of studying classical 18th century theory, there are all kinds of rules restricting the use of 5ths. Paralell 5th's (2 5th intervals that move in the same direction) are forbidden. So are paralell octaves...dont ask me why, and its really not important, however, the idea is to have as much contrary motion (notes moving in opposite directions)as possible in an arrangement. That creates the sense of movement and building tension that makes the resolve to the tonic all that much more sweet.
Actually the dead were real good at creating that tension and contrary motion with their phrasing and chord voicings.
 #13071  by paul g
 Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:53 am
then you can take that G 320033 and make it a
G7 320031 .you can get some cool bluesy fingerpicking stuff out of that . experiment by hammering/pulling off on that high E string. you can also add your 7th on the D string
G7 (3)23031 just different sounds