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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #86911  by lunasparks
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:50 pm
Listening to the Formerly the Warlocks box this morning and thought to myself that JG's tone had a little extra mojo on this eve. Then I remembered he was using the Wolf. Ah, could that be the x factor? Then I listened to Alpine Valley from a few months earlier (when it was Tiger) and had a tough time detecting a difference. Then I grabbed some shows from late 1990 when he'd switched to Rosebud...and same thing, tough to hear a difference. Basically, they all sound very good and very similar -- although I still think I might favor either the Wolf...or at least something in the October Virginia air.

But at the end of the day, if subjected to a blind tone test I seriously doubt I could pick which guitar was which during this era. Am I a victim of bad ears or can others tell the difference between these guitars -- again strictly focused on this era, when the rig was pretty much the same and only the guitars changed?

Once you get the buffer and pickup (Super 2, middle split) right maybe that's basically all the guitar matters, with all the rest cosmetics and player's "feel" -- not that these things are unimportant, mind you!

Could you pass the blind tone (acid) test?!
 #86912  by hogan
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:09 pm
I think I could pass it.
 #86916  by strumminsix
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 3:45 pm
lunasparks wrote:Could you pass the blind tone (acid) test?!
1 minute sample of an isolated Jerry track I think I'd tell the difference between:
- SG
- Strat (Gator)
- Travis
Then all the rest would just sound too similar to my ears
 #86919  by caspersvapors
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:33 pm
lunasparks wrote:Listening to the Formerly the Warlocks box this morning and thought to myself that JG's tone had a little extra mojo on this eve. Then I remembered he was using the Wolf. Ah, could that be the x factor? Then I listened to Alpine Valley from a few months earlier (when it was Tiger) and had a tough time detecting a difference. Then I grabbed some shows from late 1990 when he'd switched to Rosebud...and same thing, tough to hear a difference. Basically, they all sound very good and very similar -- although I still think I might favor either the Wolf...or at least something in the October Virginia air.
I remember watching some clips of him of using wolf (to my surprise) and thinking hey that sounds almost exactly like tiger/rosebud. I wouldnt be able to tell the difference.

But I dont think that each of those guitars had the same inherent tone, because if you listen to JGB shows he uses a different tone than with the Dead. I think he just knew exactly how to tweak his gear to get the same tone
 #86922  by lunasparks
 Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:58 pm
strummin - I'm with you -- I could tell the difference between those guitars but otherwise I couldn't do it.

caspersvapors - and that's why: he could dial it in so nicely

hogan - if I get some time this weekend maybe I'll work up a test for you!
 #87049  by Grant
 Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:35 am
i get rosebud and tiger being similar - but you can hear the difference between the buffer on those and the stratoblaster on wolf and gator... sounds a bit more harsh - not necesarrily bad-harsh though
 #87095  by Tennessee Jedi
 Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:25 am
lunasparks wrote:Listening to the Formerly the Warlocks box this morning and thought to myself that JG's tone had a little extra mojo on this eve. Then I remembered he was using the Wolf. Ah, could that be the x factor? Then I listened to Alpine Valley from a few months earlier (when it was Tiger) and had a tough time detecting a difference. Then I grabbed some shows from late 1990 when he'd switched to Rosebud...and same thing, tough to hear a difference. Basically, they all sound very good and very similar -- although I still think I might favor either the Wolf...or at least something in the October Virginia air.

But at the end of the day, if subjected to a blind tone test I seriously doubt I could pick which guitar was which during this era. Am I a victim of bad ears or can others tell the difference between these guitars -- again strictly focused on this era, when the rig was pretty much the same and only the guitars changed?

Once you get the buffer and pickup (Super 2, middle split) right maybe that's basically all the guitar matters, with all the rest cosmetics and player's "feel" -- not that these things are unimportant, mind you!

Could you pass the blind tone (acid) test?!
Image
Kinda what I am basing my guitar on ... Wolf with 'modern' pups ... Super 2's and HS2 ( 3 ? ) in the neck.
Probably couldn't tell Jerry's 80's guitars apart ...
:smile:
 #87096  by Adam Deckard
 Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:39 am
I think it would be hard to create such a test as the other bandmembers and song selections would give it away. I too would like to build a test and see just how "gnats ass" these guys' ears are.
 #87100  by tigerstrat
 Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:23 am
Adam Deckard wrote:I think it would be hard to create such a test as the other bandmembers and song selections would give it away. I too would like to build a test and see just how "gnats ass" these guys' ears are.
Ideally, the same song would be used for all samples. Taking "other bandmembers" to mean "keyboardist", Brent's playing could also also be used for all: Tiger (all), Wolf (April-July 79 and Sept-Dec '89, 7/23/90 + any other summer '90 sightings) and Rosebud ('90 until July)... just use a little care to have him playing Hammond B-3 for all samples since his other keys changed a lot over the years. Now the main giveaway becomes Bob's, Phil's and the drummers' gear.