rukind.com

Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

Talk about the recent Tours

 #46342  by Banjomike0319
 Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:53 pm
Unfortunately was never able to see Jerry, but my last Dead show was in 2004 Alpine Valley, east troy, WI.

If that counts, I don't think it does though!

 #46362  by astroman99
 Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:09 am
One observation from Albany which runs contrary to everything heard and seen that tour was that during the break, Jerry was onstage with Parish(? I think) working thru some problems with his rig, he had his guitar in his hand and headphones on, and was onstage almost the whole break..
AT the time I was hearing rumors how messed up Jer was, but the two didn't connect to me, how could he be so messed up and care about his rig or how he sounded,
I would be backstage if I was that F--ked upped.
It was like watching him die before our eyes,
I kept saying he had a black heart, I don't even know what I meant except, maybe he was in emotional pain, and a month later he was dead from heart problems..

 #46383  by mttourpro
 Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:29 pm
[quote="Hunkle"]I had a blast at all of them and not once did I think how "lame" it was or how crappy the band was at the time...."

I also had a blast at all the 95 shows I attended. FWIW, the "band" played great IMHO that tour for the most part. Unfortunately, Jerry did not. He seemed unable to even read his teleprompter and flubbed nearly every song he did in some way...especially in chicago.

I also think that when you look at history/years, 95 simply was not a very good one---in fact, arguably the worst year of GD music ever for several reasons; but, Jerry's failing health was likely the biggest factor.

 #46393  by Aridity
 Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:18 pm
Last show was 7 2 95 the Death threat, lights on, moat swim, hill climb and fence crash night,
- not pretty.

The rest of the band held together pretty darn good
as Mttour pointed out. Jer was just sadly out of it
and sick. Two nights prior they played very good at Three rivers, in Pittsburg - It was a really good
show.

I never stopped seeing the Dead for the simple reason
that they were still touring and every now and again they would play a real smomker. Saw alot of dogs in the 90's but I knew what I was getting into.

A lot of great memories.

GBTGD

Aridity :smile: :smile: :smile:

 #46475  by gr8fulbluz
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:45 am
04/07/95
Tampa Stadium - Tampa, FL
last song U.S. Blues

Black Crows opened, I was somewhere in the first 10 rows or so. I think I went to Alabama and the Omni as well that tour.
But I guess I gladly missed the gate crash later in 95.
But there is the Keller Williams song -gate crashers suck-. It was a long strange summer for me.

 #46492  by weirimpressed
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:13 pm
i dont know much from this period of the dead, was there a lot of crazy shit going on behind the scenes that was "killing" the Deadhead community? Ive talked with one of my old coworkers before that toured with the Band from 90-95 (charlie pick up your phone!), and he was telling me all sorts of crazy stuff that was going down in the lot. I was wondering what the BIG EVENTS were that sent the scene into a tailspin...

 #46494  by CountryMile Cadillac
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:54 pm
weirimpressed wrote:I was wondering what the BIG EVENTS were that sent the scene into a tailspin...

Not to sound like an ass or anything, but it was the Phish fans...





You know the kids that were coming for the party, the drugs, and not the music. Remember the taped message from Phil being blasted out to the lots telling people that if the did not have a ticket, then there was no room for them to be there. People were showing up with no intention to get into the show.

 #46498  by acidrain30005
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:27 pm
Was it true Phish fans or just dumb college kids? I wasn't there that was before my time, which is why I'm asking.

 #46503  by mttourpro
 Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:09 pm
My three cents again...Popularity, nitrous, heroin, greed, infantile/inconsiderate and violent behavior--mix it up and pour the scene down the drain....

After Touch of Grey/In the Dark come out, the crowds became larger than in previous years. They started playing stadiums again and the scene simply got a lot bigger and included a lot of people who were basically there for the party much more than for the music...."One in 10,000 come for the show".

As I see it, the real problems seemed to begin in Summer of 88 with the remergance of the ol' N2O. There were folks rolling into Alpine with U-Hauls filled with tanks. Once these were unleashed on the scene, lots of other problems got worse and new ones emerged. In Buckeye in 88, I remember seeing people walking around with big balloons and thinking WTF is that all about...tons of people never at shows before (mostly youngsters) there to get as whacked as they could. "Hippie mafia" there to make as much money as possible.

Plus, heroin was making a come back in the early 90s so now you had a whole bunch of newbies who were also junkies running around the lot, selling bunk everything and trying to get whatever they needed regardless of the results of their behavior. In fact, there were a lot of venues the Dead had always played, that they weren't allowed to play anymore (say around 89-91) for various bad reasons. Remember all the fuss about them doing the reunion in Alpine...no more Civic Arena in Pittsburgh, etc.

I don't think you can blame the overall demise of the scene on phish heads (most of them were seeing Phish actually) or necessarlily on "college kids", but moreso on a combo of several things.

Increased popularity after In the Dark, Nitrous Oxide seemingly everywhere, and a ton of new people who were there mainly to get blotto with no regard for the history of the band and the element of family in the scene.

Once completely F'd up, some seemed to decide they had a right to crash gates and act like fools in all sorts of ways.
Not that some of this didn't go on before, but I think there was just a lot more people doing a lot more stupid shit. The scene simply got too big for it to stay the way it had been.

It became a very large and eventually uncontrollable confluene of problems which basically came to a head in Summer 95.

IMO, it was inevitable that what used to a typical lot scene in the 80s was simply not possible anymore with all these changes having happened.

It was just a matter of time before some really bad stuff started to happen---you all know the rest.
 #46535  by BlueRidgeGitar
 Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:50 am
,,, I think. It was 1992 or early '93 (I really should just go on the archives to figure out what show it was.) Anyway, if I knew this was going to be my last show, I might not have left early in the second set, but it was just so discouraging -- depressing, really. I just couldn't get over how poor the playing was. I was shocked at how much Jerry had deteriorated since I'd last seen them just the year before. Forgetting lyrics, notes, timing. I think it must have brought the rest of the band down to see him go downhill like that over the last few years.
Then again, it was a Dead show -- and in hindsight, I'd rather be having a depressing time at a lousy dead show than a great time almost anywhere else.
I almost feel guilty criticizing a band that gave me and thousands of other deadheads over the years a lot of joy with their music, regardless of how they played those last few years.
God bless 'em, and to Brent, Jerry, Keith, Pigpen and Vince, rest in peace.

 #46549  by frankielee
 Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:27 pm
7/1/94 Shorline-Forgettable even with a few chestnuts thrown in.

 #46598  by jonarobb
 Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:37 pm
CountryMile Cadillac wrote:
weirimpressed wrote:I was wondering what the BIG EVENTS were that sent the scene into a tailspin...

Not to sound like an ass or anything, but it was the Phish fans...



That's pretty lame. Stereotyping the obnoxious and unkind folks at shows as "The Phish fans". It was really the scammer mentality from Haight Street and Telegraph Avenue that fucked the whole Dead scene up. Normal junkie bullshit that exponentially grew to the point where it was obvious it had infested the scene. It was there way back in the day as well. The only reason I take offense to blaming that on the Phish fans is that I'm one of the old school Phish folk. And just like any other scene that gets big, I watched the Phish scene get overwhelmed with the same scammers that were showing up at Dead shows. If someone were to ask me why the Phish scene got so blown out I could just as easily say it was the Deadheads fault, right? :D

 #46640  by Mick
 Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:52 am
I agree with basically all of mt's post on why the scene went in the dumps. He mentioned, but didn't really expound on, the people there who weren't there for the show, but I would expound on that to include the words "professional dealers". Yes, lots of younger folks were showing up looking for drugs so it wasn't long before certain other types were showing up to serve that demand. That had a lot of bad repurcussions. Suddenly, the impression of a Dead show as a bunch of hippies smoking some weed and generally keeping to themselves such that we don't hassle them too much while they spend their money at our venue, became a paranoia (somewhat founded) that booking a Grateful Dead concert will involve a congregation of drug dealers, many of whom were not exactly the nicest people around. This in turn caused a dramatic increase in the amount of cops in the parking lot, both uniformed and undercover, who thought nothing of getting in your face to figure out specifically what it was you were doing. That was bad.

Ticket availability was also dramatically impaired imo because of the increase in popularity there was an influx of a different kind of professional dealer, namely a professional scalper. Where I once had gone to box offices or ticketmaster and just bought the tickets that I wanted, it became a dialing game on the phone which would often fail and my only choice was to deal with the scalpers at the venue. That was annoying, but not as bad as the above.

The people selling stuff other than drugs, t-shirts and the like, seemed to change too. Early 80s was deadheads hanging some shirts outside their vehicle so that other interested heads would buy them, which would facilitate the seller following the band a little longer than they would otherwise had been able to. 90s was more professional shirt maker types walking around in the parking lot giving us a "sales pitch", which was something we weren't at all interested in. That was also annoying.

Even with all of that, shows the size of the Spectrum or Brendan Byrne arena still seemed to have mostly cool people inside so even though the parking lot kind of sucked, the shows were awesome. The overwhelming number of assholes always seemed to be at the stadium shows. I went to I think 3 Giants stadium shows and just couldn't deal with that scene anymore for a variety of reasons.

 #46643  by astroman99
 Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:18 am
I have already posted about my last shows...but I will combine this with the current phish thread Actually my last phish show was onondaga war mem, syracuse '94, after I got my second row center seats I thought I'd give the band one more try... lo and behold walking on to the floor all these smelly hipsters were passing the rows of seats back, so the floor became GA, I sat in the hallway the whole show... oh well...

 #46648  by tigerstrat
 Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:30 am
CountryMile Cadillac wrote:
weirimpressed wrote:I was wondering what the BIG EVENTS were that sent the scene into a tailspin...

Not to sound like an ass or anything, but it was the Phish fans...

You know the kids that were coming for the party, the drugs, and not the music. Remember the taped message from Phil being blasted out to the lots telling people that if the did not have a ticket, then there was no room for them to be there. People were showing up with no intention to get into the show.
You are accusing exactly the wrong people. Phish fans in the early-mid 90's were basically a certain subgroup of Deadheads. You would have been hard pressed to find any Phishheads who hadn't first been turned on to the Dead before discovering the "secret door" leading to the Phish "sub-basement". Around maybe early 94 you began to see some "independent" very young Phishies emerging. But if it's some kind of invasion you are hypothesizing, it came from within.