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Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

Chat about Equipment Info

 #39394  by Mick
 Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:54 am
Mikepand: This is rested as far as I am concerned. Sorry if I overstepped in any way.

Glad you joined the board.

Mick

 #46087  by paulinnc
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:21 am
Interesting thread. I really appreciate the comments about sq footage because I am thinking about putting together a speaker cabinet with possibly 2-3 10" Californias from Weber as opposed to 2 12" in the interest of saving space and I think it would be cool to have a mini Garcia rig. Recently I found a 1956 Motorola tube amp chassis on CL that I had converted into a 5D3 tweed style amp. I am going to make/buy an enclosure for it and make a head out of it. The cool thing is it is a real "vintage" 50's amp that when all the mods were done cost m less than 125$. I think the cabinet and enclosure would cost more but they will be things I hang on to. I posted some pics of the amp on the gearheads group if anyone wants to take a look. I know I am still a nOOb, but thes forums have been very helpful, not only for GD gear but to learn about good gear and how to obtain good tone.

 #46088  by strumminsix
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:37 am
Paul, 10s have a very different response than 12s.
I don't think you'd have a mini-garcia rig except in looks.

 #46089  by waldo041
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:06 am
i have to concur with strummin. the 10's will be less bass, more high end. the 12's are where it's at in terms of response. you could probably compare with the frequency chart for the speakers.

peace,
waldo

 #46092  by tigerstrat
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:31 am
why not just go 1x12. That's what I use, it's all the sound I can use and probably lighter than a 2x10.

 #46093  by High Peaks
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:24 pm
I agree with TS.

Try a 1 x 12 and mic it if needed. The only problem is that Twin's are set up for 2 x 12 8 ohm load. ( i think)

Thats why i'm getting my mesa head fixed. I can play with anything and adjust the load for 4, 8 or 16 ohms.

I'll use 1- 12" e120 for this.

My keyboard player actually brought up the rig issue last week. We are going to start gigging again, and he mentioned it would be worth the effort of having a more compact rig.

My problem is that i basically have a Twin. Its just in a head and custom cabinet, so the footprint is a little bigger. What is the smallest footprint anyone here has had, and still come close to the Garcia tones??

 #46094  by playingdead
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:49 pm
Well, you know, it might sound better than you'd think. I have a Fender Vibrolux reissue loaded with 2 10" JBL K-110 speakers, and it's got a beautiful tone to it. I don't gig with it anymore because we're playing larger rooms and I just have to have my 900 watts on tap just in case ;-) but I do use it at rehearsal and it's got a great sound.

I think the issue, going for the "correct" Garcia tone, would be more using the Webers vs. the JBLs, I just don't think you can really knock the sound without the right speakers.

You can get prodigious amount of low end out of a 4X10 bass cabinet. Size isn't everything ;-)

 #46095  by waldo041
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:40 pm
playingdead wrote:You can get prodigious amount of low end out of a 4X10 bass cabinet. Size isn't everything ;-)
vic,

i believe we have had this argument before, but again i would disagree. although a JBL K110 is an awesome speaker, i would be willing to bet that it does lack some low end when put against it's brother the K120. the K110 will be more crispier and while it can be used in a 4-10 bass cabinet. that cab will be custom tuned and enclosed to obtain those lower bass freq's. there is a difference in it's power handling, it's frequency responce and its sound pressure level. so size in this case does matter, at least in an open back guitar cab.


http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/k_series.pdf

peace,
waldo

 #46096  by waldo041
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:54 pm
High Peaks wrote:What is the smallest footprint anyone here has had, and still come close to the Garcia tones??
i have since got a road case for the amp, but it still sits on top of the rack. the pedal board when packed fits in front of the amp and all of it rolls out as one. easy in and easy out. next i am going for connecting all of it up faster. 1 military multi pin plugs/jacks and a custom made cable.


Image

peace,
waldo

 #46097  by tigerstrat
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:59 pm
playingdead wrote:You can get prodigious amount of low end out of a 4X10 bass cabinet. Size isn't everything ;-)
My bass rig in my old Chicago group Wingnut was a '78 SVT into a single Hartke 410XL and it was a true bass behemoth. Extremely wide freq response and the lows were... what's the phrase? -Sickleberry. :smile:

 #46100  by playingdead
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:17 pm
I don't doubt that a 12" speaker has more low frequency response than a K-110, but in terms of Garcia's setup, which has most of the low end rolled off anyway, I don't think it's that crucial to the overall Jerry sound, if that's what you're after.

I found I would run the bass up a little higher on the Vibrolux -- 5 or so -- compared to 2 or 3 on the Twin. If I get motivated, maybe I'll haul my rack and 2X12 in the house, and run the rack off the Vibrolux speakers and then the E-120s to see how they compare.

I prefer the E-120s live, that's why I haul that heavy cabinet around. But the K-110s sound very nice, too.

I have not liked the Weber Californias I've heard, but they were not through my rig, so who knows?

 #46101  by pappypgh
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:10 pm
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllll....I'll chime in here...

Now, I'll start by saying that I don't attempt to GET a "perfect" Garcia tone. It's not what I'm after. I like having the option of RESEMBLING his tones here & there for specific GD songs, but I will admit that there are some GD tunes that I like to go for a different feel and have it sound like I was playing it, rather than Jerry...I know - how dare I take that liberty!!! :shock:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaannnyway, enough of the elongated intros - I use a re-issue 1x12" 22w Fender Deluxe Reverb. My pedal board has (in order) a BOSS Noise Reduction, BOSS Stage Tuner, ElectroHarmonix Octave Multiplexer, BOSS Overdrive/Distortion, Dunlop Cry-Baby Wah, ElectroHarmonix Q-Tron, Soundtank Digital Delay, Beringer Phase Shifter. Those are all preceeded SOMETIMES by a Roland GR09 Guitar Synth (I have mounted to my 1994 American Standard Strat with Seymour Duncan rails & a bridge humbucker), but MOSTLY they are not, as I mostly play my new SB MacDonald Custom guitar. All of this stuff (which isn't MUCH, but it's mine & I love it...other than one day I want to change out the cheapy Soundtank Delay for a BOSS DD3) gives me a sound (if I choose) VERY close to Jerry's, I think.

You guys be the judge. If you check out our website, you'll be able to find either sound and/or video of us doing some GD tunes. Lemme know if you hear any Jerry there. I don't presume to get a tone as close as the guy from Playing Dead (which, by the way dude, you're really good and I dig your tone - HOWEVER I WILL say that it's a TAD - just a TAD - thin and I think it's because of the 10s...I'm just sayin'). His tone is very reminiscent of the tones Jerry got when he switched to his final axe of choice. That tone sounded a touch more "processed" to me - I preferred Jerry's tone from 1989-1990. Although my FAVORITE Jerry tone was probably with the Travis Beans....just something about it.

That's my long-winded 2 cents.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

 #46102  by pappypgh
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:11 pm
tigerstrat wrote: Extremely wide freq response and the lows were... what's the phrase? -Sickleberry. :smile:
YES, TS!!!! I hope y'all remember who coined THAT word! It'll be in Webster's by 2024! :lol:

 #46106  by tigerstrat
 Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:50 pm
pappypgh wrote: Although my FAVORITE Jerry tone was probably with the Travis Beans....just something about it.


If y feel that way, you really should try to get or somehow have an opportunity to play a Bean- they're really something else. Although not necessarily my favorite Jerry tone especially compared with my fave Tiger, the first time I got to play a TB-1000A it was very easy to see how Jerry could have been so taken with them for a couple of years. They have a very different feel, voice and mojo about them than any other guitars. Insane sustain.