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Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:32 pm
by Billbbill
mttourpro wrote:
Billbbill wrote:def an F# at the end run after the modulation up to B

I wonder around...
--F#--E--D--A--E-----B--A--E-B

figured I'd start another debate!!! :P
Ironically, we had a little discussion about that part as well. The RUKind tab shows an A instead of your F# and we also decided on A last night after a brief reveiw.
Ha! That's too funny. Up until about a year ago (so for almost 30 years of playing the song!) I played the A as well. So me and mkaufman start playing it early on in our 'pre-band' jamming and we disagree over this, him saying F# and me saying A. He says he got it from Jason (Jonarobb). So I scour through all sorts of vid and find one shot each of Bob and Jer playing what convinced me it was indeed the F#. I believe the clips I looked at are/were on youtube. Bob barring the 9th fret and on another vid jer barring the 2nd fret with his thumb over the top and then sliding back to the open E chord.

Most folks wouldn't know the difference - as pappy said the most important thing is that it sounds good and everyone is on the same page. If students of this stuff like ourselves can't tell - who the hell else will? :smile:

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:14 pm
by mijknahs
Billbbill wrote:If students of this stuff like ourselves can't tell - who the hell else will? :smile:
This is a great quote! Very wise indeed. Now where's that video...

Of course the audience won't even notice or care but it is "nice" to know exactly what Jerry or Bob played. Just for the sake of knowing...

Jim

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:29 am
by Billbbill
mijknahs wrote:
Of course the audience won't even notice or care but it is "nice" to know exactly what Jerry or Bob played. Just for the sake of knowing...

Jim
Very true

A quick pre getting ready for the day job scan found this - it's a bit far back but I still think its pretty visable via jg - probably better off going to yt to see it - everything from barring the B (d,g and b strings) at the 4th fret w/ his index finger and then back to the end of the neck. And it's not what I originally viewed - now wondering if it's gone from yt or if it was in my own little collection.

4:24


Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:32 am
by strumminsix
To be clear, you are hearing this F# major when they are singing, yes?

I know too many folks play a verse progression over the solo, which is wrong.

If solo chords are played properly I suppose someone could squeeze in an F, sorta, maybe ;)

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:20 am
by Billbbill
strumminsix wrote:To be clear, you are hearing this F# major when they are singing, yes?

I know too many folks play a verse progression over the solo, which is wrong.

If solo chords are played properly I suppose someone could squeeze in an F, sorta, maybe ;)
Not sure if you're directing this at me or not Nick but I'm saying the F# maj is after the mudulation up to B maj at the "wander" lyric in "I wander aroun--ou--ound" part.

The OP is about the verse and whether it's an F# m or maj there. I'm of the mind it's a minor though as mentioned my take on jg's licks is that he's not playing the third one way or another. Being a bob guy I'd be curious what your take is. Had practice w/ mkaufman last night and we discussed this - he's also of the mind it's F#m.

Who plays a lead of verse on any of this? Either they ain't payin attention or they're just freelancing.

Check out pappy's first link at the archive - I'd never heard them segue into scarlet from the sug mags jam like that - a bit quick too I might add - not sure if I'd of been bummed at the abbreviated sugar jam (don't know if they picked it up again later in the show) or psyched at scarlet coming unexpectedly.

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:26 am
by Billbbill
Oops - sorry Nick - Forgot about your earlier post. Never mind...

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:11 am
by strumminsix
I'm still of the opinion that it's an F#m, Bill.

I listened to a few versions and played over them and still hear either a minor 3rd or no 3rd at all.

Also listened to a few other versions and heard what I do believe is a minor 3rd from Phil.

And I was toying around and play the relative major of F#m, A, over that spot and it relatively fit.

Inherently, the E A B F# songs have what I call a "Box chord feel" and this song doesn't have it.
Conversely, the E A B C#M F#m songs have a smoother feel which I do feel this song has.

Pappy has some of the best ears for music and I'll not discredit what he hears just that I don't hear it at all.

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:22 am
by Grateful Dad
My two cents worth:

During the verses use the F#m. Using the F#major chord causes a dissonant tone to sound out (the A#).

F#m = F#-A-C#
F#major = F#-A#-C#

At the end of the song:

(A) Sometimes when the cuckoos crying, when the moon is halfway down, (slide up A# to B)
(B) sometimes when the
(E) night is (B) dying, I take me out and I
(A) wander a-
(E) round (D) (A) (E)
(B) I wander
(A) round
(E) (B). > drum fill > to lead.....

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:40 am
by Tennessee Jedi
Ha ha !
Grateful Dad you are a great bass player with a great ear and know the Dead inside out but I will disagree on one thing -
the 1st 'wander' is an F#
There is an A in an F# Minor so we might just be looking at it/calling it the same.
Of course some dare to suggest its a major .....
I listened to the Album version , E 72 , 80's versions and really couldnt hear it either way ... the major or minor
:smile:

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:21 am
by Grateful Dad
Tennessee Jedi wrote:Ha ha !
Grateful Dad you are a great bass player with a great ear and know the Dead inside out but I will disagree on one thing -
the 1st 'wander' is an F#
There is an A in an F# Minor so we might just be looking at it/calling it the same.
Of course some dare to suggest its a major .....
I listened to the Album version , E 72 , 80's versions and really couldnt hear it either way ... the major or minor
:smile:
Dude! How you doin'? I am getting psyched for the jam in April.

Donovan outta here :?: :shock: :?: 8) :?:

I just sat at the piano and played the "1st 'wander' is an F#" and melodically it works as long as no third (the A#) is voiced because the melody note on "wander" is an A and you will get that dissonant sound again (A clashing with the A#). As long as everyone is on the same page the use of either chord (A or F# no third) will work melodically.

I prefer the A major chord melodically. The bass can use the F# as a passing tone between the B chord and E chord there (if the band plays the A chord) and it sounds sweeter than the clunky A root.

Or you can just do what the Sex Pistols did and just bang away on your geeter
RIP Sid Vicious :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:04 am
by Pete B.
I pity the fool that plays an F#m there. :lol: [just funnin']
Tune up to this slow tempo RatDog version and play-along/listen-closely (I don't see a clear video shot).
Definitely an F# (A>C#m>F#>E).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHrdYTKI3ss

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:48 am
by strumminsix
Okay, this is fucked up.

I'm still not hearing the F# major. However, I am not hearing a minor and found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwTSQVnhD-g

Look at 0:29 ... Certainly appears to be a major.

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:27 am
by Grateful Dad
strumminsix wrote:Okay, this is fucked up.

I'm still not hearing the F# major. However, I am not hearing a minor and found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwTSQVnhD-g

Look at 0:29 ... Certainly appears to be a major.
It could be the F#m form with the first finger on the (high to low) F#-C# and A, 4th finger on the F#, and the third finger on the C#. It looks like a F#major only no second finger. Optical illusion?

Either that or they just fuckin' with our heads..........

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:19 am
by mttourpro
strumminsix wrote:Okay, this is fucked up.
No doubt, I now feel like Dr. Frankenstein! It is remarkable how much we all seem to care about such minutia---but it is important if it's gonna be "just exactly perfect".

FWIW, I am now leaning towards just leaving the 3rd out on the F# in the verse.

As for the "other F#"---I'm gonna stick with an A chord there.

Here's a thought, maybe the GD actually did it both ways on both spots at different times just to F with us. :shock:

Re: correct chord

PostPosted:Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:57 am
by Grateful Dad
With all our experience and knowledge as musicians, the fact that we're still seeking the answer to a chord sound kind of reminds me of the apes in the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. Scratching our heads and wondering "what the heck is it???"