Grateful Dead Music Forum

A place to talk about the music of the Grateful Dead 

 #40426  by BlobWeird
 Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:29 am
Mick wrote:Billbill:

The more we talk, the more I think we are saying the same thing two different ways. EXCEPT, one of us is a little screwed up on the modes/scales terminology, and I seriously wouldn't doubt that it is me. However, to get an A mixolydian scale, I THINK what you would do is play the notes from the A major scale starting on the 5th of the scale, so you would get the following:
I just wanna get you straight on one thing there. To get the Mixolydian you start on the 5th note of the scale. You put that but you put to get A mixolydian start on the 5th note in the A major scale. That wouldnt be correct. You would start on the 5th note of the D major scale. Or you could just know that to get mixolydian flatten the 7th note. 7th note of A major being G# just make it a G and voila!

 #40436  by DenverEd
 Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:58 pm
Those modes are a source of non stop confusion. I'm no expert, but I think this is right. A mixolydian is the 5th mode of the D scale. So, you play all the notes of D (D E F# G A B C#), but you start with the A:

A B C# D E F# G

Compare this to A Ionian, which is:

A B C# D E F# G#

and you see that A Mixolydian has the flat 7. You always compare to the Ionian mode to see what notes are changed.

 #40437  by ronster
 Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:01 pm
I think of CAGED as more of a positioning/economy of movement deal. Might you still not have a different note here or there for the same CAGED position depending on the flavor of the song?
Without doubt there plenty of little slide up slide down and walk up and down notes to be played that don't fall within the chord shapes. Playing the chord shape does not mean just hitting the chord notes but all those notes associated with that position that fit over the mode or scale of the song. The caged system for a tune like this allows me to change my leads up endlessly but still remain within the chord structure of the tune and hit lead notes to chords on time. But the main reason is that if I were to play this just out of d mixo position I would get lost, run out of ideas, and basically sound like shit. If you can play by ear and pick up all the right notes at the right time then the caged thing may not be of help but for me it is a huge help.

 #40442  by Billbbill
 Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:05 pm
Hey ronster - by no means was I dissin the caged system - I just got the impression (wrongly I'm sure :oops: ) that your allusion to the system here somehow superseded the need to delve into scale sensibilities. Surely the answer is that both have their place.

I use the caged system often - especially with arpeggio heavy lines but much more as well. As stated economy of movement especially when transitioning from one chord to another and yes of course we're talking about the full boat of notes that represent a particular scale or mode.

One thing I will say is I often think, er well, out of the cage so to speak, though still within the context of chords, scales or modes.

I find maximizing my options pays the highest dividends and helps keep me from getting stale or in ruts.

 #40450  by Mick
 Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:24 am
OK, I just did some reading at High Country Guitar (great resource btw) and it turns out, I was the incorrect one here, no surprise. If I have the correct now, the KEY would be Key of D, the SCALE would be A mixolydian.

Let me know if I still have this dorked up.

 #40454  by Billbbill
 Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:51 am
I believe we're good now. :smile:

I also did some quick research for the key and did confirm it as D maj. tehe

forgive my :-) and tehe. I get a chuckle when I talk technical cause I'm a bit the idiot.

 #40455  by Mick
 Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:30 am
Thanks Bill and Denver Ed, and Blob too! I need a lot of straightening out from time to time. But I know what you mean Bill, in that where the key lies on the fretboard doesn't change based on the use of correct or incorrect terminology, so I am stronger on knowing where the key is on the fretboard than on knowing what the right terms are. Of course, communicating on message boards is pretty impossible without consistent terminology, so I am happy to be corrected along the way.

 #40458  by DenverEd
 Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:01 am
Playing lead using the CAGED technique. I am trying to incorporate this method. I can see where it will be very useful down the road. But man, you need to know every single chord form at every position on the neck and be able to jump between them quickly.

 #40459  by Tennessee Jedi
 Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:11 am
If you watch the Jer playing you can see him playing off the chords.
Its really helps in figuring stuff out too.
Love the DVD's 'cause if you can recognize the chord shape hes playing in ,you can get a lot of good stuff.