Grateful Dead Music Forum

i'm trying to figure out the riff jerry does when there are jamming during the other one...it's the riff that sounds sort of, backwards / spacey.

sort of sounds out of tune backwards spacey. I know you know the riff i'm talking about...

thanks!

i think i might know what you're talking about. try busting out licks with E Dorian and hit the flatenned 6ths (Bb). the flat 6th really adds that spacey minor other one vibe.

razmablues wrote:i think i might know what you're talking about. try busting out licks with E Dorian and hit the flatenned 6ths (Bb). the flat 6th really adds that spacey minor other one vibe.

I'm having some trouble with this... I have minor modal understanding, but isn't Mixolydian the scale with the flattened 6th? Also , I'm not seeing a Bb in the scale (i'm looking in the guitar tab).

Bucket, im not sure what you mean. Is this lick played during a part when they are rockin kind of hard or a spacier, slower, part more along the lines of 13 or 14 minutes into Skullfuck's version? Or during jams into the song (pre-vocal)?

About the theory question

Mixolydian has a flatted 7, not 6.

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 (like Dorian, but with b6)

Ramza, I guess you are saying he should play both b6 and 5 (C and C#)?

sorry for the confusion.

yes i did mean E Dorian, and as far as the flat 6 goes; the B is the 6th, which is IN the scale, but i hear jerry toggling the B but also the A#(Bb). My theory isn't too strong and i think what threw people off is me saying E dorian, but then refering to 6th from the ionian point of view (Dmaj) rather than the Dorian point of view.

but yeah long story short, E dorian, B is in the scale, hit the Bb's as well

sorry for the confusion everyone

here's a small lick to show my point:

Rev_Roach wrote:Bucket, im not sure what you mean. Is this lick played during a part when they are rockin kind of hard or a spacier, slower, part more along the lines of 13 or 14 minutes into Skullfuck's version? Or during jams into the song (pre-vocal)?

About the theory question

Mixolydian has a flatted 7, not 6.

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 (like Dorian, but with b6)

Ramza, I guess you are saying he should play both b6 and 5 (C and C#)?

its during the slower parts...it's the riff that sort of sounds backwards...

E|------------------------------12------------|------------------------------12--12--|--
B|--15--15--14--14--15--15------15--14--|--15--15--14--14--15--15----------|--
G|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
D|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
A|--------------------------------------------|---------------------------------------|--
E|--------------------------------------------|----------------------------------------|-- Maybe?

E|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
B|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
G|---------------------11--12--11--|--------------------------11--14--12--
D|--14--14--12--14-----------------|--12--14--14--12--14--------------
A|------------------------------------|----------------------------------
E|------------------------------------|----------------------------------

Also, this is what i hear starting at 13:41 on the 9/3/72 version (dick's picks 36) i think

What do you mean by "slower parts"?

In the opening post I thought I knew what you were talking about, that mad (could be described as backward sounding or inside-out) lick that Garcia frequently did almost as an audible cue to go into the common lick before the 2nd verse... but that part is anything but slow, it's more like the very summit of the jam.

Only slow part I know is Cryptical.

how' about this here one...it's the one I'd think of when thinking of backwards, if I happened to be thinking of what a backward lick might sound like. Does that qualify as convoluted????

b--------------------------------------------------------12
g------------12b-----------12b-----------12--12-14-12-14
d------12-14---------12-14----------12-14--14---
a---14------------14-------------14---

Those are just slight bends - to give it a little gnarl

thanks for that.....any chance you could put up and audio or vid clip of it? eyes sees its but eyes donts hears its