Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby keirweir » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:06 am

I know there are many different threads on different rig options but I wanted to get some feedback and tone from folks on the board displaying their rig.

I'm leaning towards shopping around for a early Twin head (hopefully modded) but would be willing to have the mods done. Then comes the power amp question... Do I buckle down and shop around for a Mac and if so, there seems to be many different Mac's out there. Is the Mac really worth it in terms of going after the tone and which model would be best?

Then I start to think about going the SMS route... I had a chance to try one out over two years ago but I was just getting my feet wet and I couldn't get over how good Vic's Tiger guitar sounded so everything else just blurred away... I wish I had that chance again!

The bottom line is I am tired of chasing this F-ing tone and I want my search to end. My 65 re-issue is great but I’m going for holy shit, there it is tone.

Once again, I am going for that 1987 Tiger tone and wouldn't want to spend more than $1,500...

What say you!?!??!
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby playingdead » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:30 am

I think you need to ask Waldo for the latest Twin mods, and get a Mac and use the E-120s, but your challenge is going to be being able to turn it up loud enough to get that tone happening. Listen to Mik's guitar (tapestry) from that outdoor gig, the beginning of Midnight Moonlight ... there it is. E-120s and a Mac and LOUD. Mijknah's rig gets that sound, too ... but it's gotta be loud. Clubs you play, you'll be killing everyone up front, your drummer and whichever one of your ears is closest to your cabinet.

Or you can just buy my Ultra for $1700 when I get the II ordered, magic preset included ... LOL
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby jester536 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:55 am

Now that's a shameless plug.
If the thunder don't getcha then the lightning will!
http://www.reverbnation.com/unchartedwaters
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:08 am

Image

Image
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby keirweir » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:10 am

Rusty the Scoob wrote:Image

Image



Pressuming this is an attempt to suggest that I keep my Twin with the K's?

The k's do sound the best in my twin by a long shot.


Great point with the volume VIc, Jerry was playing stadiums while I'll be playing phone booths...
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:27 am

:lol: I don't care how you power them, but yeah, that's a vote for the Ks. 8)
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby tapestry » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:35 am

just my 2 cents on volume....

Yes at the outdoor show I was louder than indoors, but not by much... I have found that even at lower levels, it sounds great. In a club, i mic the cab with a e-609 and I think its working great. I will record at the electric company this saturday and we can compare. Indoors Twin vol was set at 3.5 and mac at 8-9 oclock, guitar vol about 50-70%...outdoors twin was the same, mac was up to 10 oclock, guitar vol 50-70%. It just SOUNDS BETTER LOUDER!

To me the magic is this:
super II coil tapped in the middle postion +
Waldos Buffer +
Fender twin with waldos modz +
Mcintosh 2100 or similar mac +
JBL e-120s in HT style cab +
excellent picking and fingerpicking dynamic control +
lots of feeling

I admire the digital equipment and have been impressed with the tones, im just an analog guy and like messing with actual knob controls.
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby keirweir » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:39 am

tapestry wrote:just my 2 cents on volume....

Yes at the outdoor show I was louder than indoors, but not by much... I have found that even at lower levels, it sounds great. In a club, i mic the cab with a e-609 and I think its working great. I will record at the electric company this saturday and we can compare. Indoors Twin vol was set at 3.5 and mac at 8-9 oclock, guitar vol about 50-70%...outdoors twin was the same, mac was up to 10 oclock, guitar vol 50-70%. It just SOUNDS BETTER LOUDER!

To me the magic is this:
super II coil tapped in the middle postion +
Waldos Buffer +
Fender twin with waldos modz +
Mcintosh 2100 or similar mac +
JBL e-120s in HT style cab +
excellent picking and fingerpicking dynamic control +
lots of feeling

I admire the digital equipment and have been impressed with the tones, im just an analog guy and like messing with actual knob controls.



To me the magic is this:
super II coil tapped in the middle postion + Got it!
Waldos Buffer + Got it!
Fender twin with waldos modz + need it
Mcintosh 2100 or similar mac + need it
JBL e-120s in HT style cab + have it
excellent picking and fingerpicking dynamic control + def have this
lots of feeling - not sure what to do with this I have so much!
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby playingdead » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:27 am

But I'd be leery of pushing the K-120s hard with a Mac ... won't take a whole lot before they go "poof!" You can slam those E-120 cones in and out all night long, but I wouldn't try it with the K-110s I have in a Hard Truckers cabinet, they are for recording, not gigging.

Keir has that intangible feel to his playing, I've heard him. That's the hardest thing about it. At a certain point, for the rest, it's all degrees of things ... guitar woods, guitar pick, string gauge, string brand, action height, frets, bridge height, fingerpicking vs. flatpicking, wrist position, positive note feel (as opposed to be sloppy and glissing over things), varying your vibrato at certain spots, how hard you're pushing the speakers, where the cones are mic'd, stage acoustics. Hell, how long your nails are, I'm thinking Garcia was a rare visitor to the manicurist and probably on a nodding acquaintance at best with a nail clipper, you know?
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby mijknahs » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:49 am

David Fontaine said that when he met Garcia backstage in 84 or 85 he checked Jerry's right hand fingernails (for this very reason) and said they were clipped very short. That really suprised me becaus he gets such a sharp tone when he fingerpicks. Sounds like a real pick. Must have had thick callouses.

I also think the guitar wood makes more of a contribution to the tone than many are giving credit. I used to think it was all in the signal path and I got pretty close in the late 90's with my PRS and the rest of the gear (Twin/Mac/JBLs). But when I got my custom guitar in '97, it was like getting a new piece of electornics (but it had all the same electronics as the PRS). The tone was more focused from the sparkley highs to the low end gut. Just like you need a Strat style guitar if you're going for the '72 tone, I think the Cocobolo/Maple combination contributes significantly to the "Tiger" tone.

Jim
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby playingdead » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:00 am

Now, Keith Richards, on the other hand, summed up his tone thusly: "Believe me, it takes five strings, three notes, two fingers and one asshole."

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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby keirweir » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:44 am

Thanks for the compliment Vic, there's nothing I enjoy more than playing my guitar.

Good point Jim... I noticed a huge difference in tone between my Phiga (Wenge top,mohogany core, purpleheart back) and my Resurrection (Coco bolo top, Maple core Coco back). There somthing special about that combo but then again I've heard people play Strats with great Tiger tone.

This will be a journey for sure... The K's are perfect for my Twin as is as a combo. The SMS or Twin head and Mac (or like poweramp) is the road I am heading down.
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby jdsmodulus » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:22 pm

Keir go for the SMS! its light easy to use and spot on! You will not be dissappointed.
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby keirweir » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:35 pm

jdsmodulus wrote:Keir go for the SMS! its light easy to use and spot on! You will not be dissappointed.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... How much does a decent Rack unit go for? I have a pedal pad now and I imagine if I went rack I would want to get all the pedals in the rack and then get a control board for everything... :? :? :? :?
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Re: Dreaming of my new guitar rig... Looking for 87 tone

Postby playingdead » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:58 pm

GCX and Ground Control ... $800 new, $550 or so used. $90 or so for the pullout rack drawer -- takes two spaces in the rack. Figure another $250 for good custom cabling (I used Redco, 40-inch stereo cables to halve the fatness of the pigtail) unless you can roll your own. Don't bother with the George L or Planet Waves cable kits, they are too fat and expensive to be practical, plus they will give you trouble in the back of the rack at the worst possible time. You need right angles at the pedals and straight plugs for the GCX. Racks are $100 each. $200 for a power supply for the pedals. Get two racks -- four spaces for the SMS, tuner and power conditioner, another six spaces for the pedals, GCX and power amp. A 10-space rack is too damn heavy and prone to tipping forward when it's loaded. Buy a lot of 3M Dual Lock to put everything in place on the pedal tray. Get a good fitted rolling custom road case for your 2X12 cabinet, save your back -- $500 or so. Don't cheap out on that ... get a pro AVS one, it will roll over anything and never break. Buy a $70 dog ramp at Petco to roll that sucker into your vehicle.

You won't believe how much better your tone will be.

That's exactly where I was at in 2009, except I had the Egnater M4 preamp and the Focus 2R power amp ... until I went to two rack spaces, powered monitors, no pedals and one guitar cable :shock:
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