Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:10 pm

TI4-1009 wrote:
JonnyBoy wrote: I dunno what the Bear quote had to do with it, but I can use as many brain cells I have left. :smile:


Aw comeon, it was a poor attempt at a joke- "Too bright"="too many brain cells". :-)



I know... it was funny, I was thinking that was your launching point :lol:

Good stuff here, good stuff. I know Strum had a thread about using the vol pot as a tonal adjustment, It seems like I have been blasting full blast lately, which I know is totally wrong for me. I had to laugh when Tap realized he had a tone pot, :lol: me too. That would be the ticket even at full blast. Sometimes I just don't think. I was messing with my pre rather than rolling off the tone. :roll:
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby jeffm725 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:16 pm

JB,
Are you recording the gigs? How does it sound to you when you listen back.
As long as it is not a total mud recording, recordings dont lie, if you are too bright live, you will sound too bright on the recording....

(although the one exception is reverb, playing live if it sounds like you are drowning in reverb, it will sound just right on the recording! If you think you have your reverb set right live it will sound like Dry White toast on the recording :lol: )
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby JonnyBoy » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:35 pm

jeffm725 wrote:JB,
Are you recording the gigs? How does it sound to you when you listen back.
As long as it is not a total mud recording, recordings dont lie, if you are too bright live, you will sound too bright on the recording....

(although the one exception is reverb, playing live if it sounds like you are drowning in reverb, it will sound just right on the recording! If you think you have your reverb set right live it will sound like Dry White toast on the recording :lol: )



I have been saying this all along, the idea keeps getting put on the back burner with all the other crap to do. I have a zoom with the 2 condenser mic's , it does an alright job. That will be the next time we play for sure. I wonder the best way to capture the sound, ie like the dead in the center tapers section?
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby keirweir » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:05 pm

mijknahs wrote:If I think my sound has too much treble, I turn the treble knob down and add a bit more mids. Never add bass. It's too low and boomy. I also turn the tone knob down sometimes halfway.

Actually I haven't been turning the treble all the way up for a while now. Usually down to about 7. I think it sounds better. Sometimes I have the mid all the way up to 8 or 8.5.

I think the bass control is awful. Might as well not even exist.


+1

I run around 8.5 on the highs and about 7.5 on the mids
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:07 pm

Yo JB
them Zooms are gold for practice jams
:-)
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby tapestry » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:17 pm

What do you guys think> ... too bright?
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby jeager » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:49 pm

Too bright?

I think it would be impossible to tell from the recording because mic placement makes such a big difference. People standing right on axis with the speaker cone might be getting blasted while those off to the side are not...but you sound great on the recoding, nice work man.

My brief experience with the JBL e120 was like wow, I can see why some would say its too bright. It really reminded me of a very loud banjo sound...hmm, makes sense given the source. It was hard to play in a small room without feeling like I was about to knock my i teeth out of my head. I have to admit that I have always been a bit sensitive though, some folks will think it is great while I am ramming my fingers in my ears. I never experienced this problem at a dead show though...but I have heard Jerry sounding ice picky on some of the mid/late 70's recordings in particular.

Once I had to up and leave an Allman Bros. show because my ears were in pain...too friggin' loud...I have never gone back to see them again.
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby rugger » Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:54 am

Once I had to up and leave an Allman Bros. show because my ears were in pain...too friggin' loud...


Ha! Same with me. They were at the Warfield in San Francisco sometime in the 90's, loudest concert I've ever been to. That's a pretty small venue and it was like they thought they were playing a stadium. I couldn't go into the main ballroom area and had to stay in the lobby. That wasn't very fun, so we left early.

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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby jeffm725 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:34 am

tapestry wrote:What do you guys think> ... too bright?


sounds good..........

......... but a video camera recording pretty much right on top of the stage would not be a recording I would use as a reference for how your tone is coming across. We are talking apples and oranges here. Having a vid like you posted is a fun, historical document of the evening, but probably not an accurate representation of what people are hearing in the club. For example, your guitar and vocals sound nice on here, but keys and bass are a bit buried probably due to location of the video camera and the limitations of the mid.

For JonnyBoys purposes (or anyone who is interested in hearing how the band "sounds" or your instrument sounds within a band context) you really need to get a recording in the room x number of feet back from the stage (depending on size of the room) and in the Center. Then you can get a much more accurate feeling for what people are hearing. It doesnt have to be the ultimate recording setup either. These days there are plenty of small digital recorders with built in mics that will do just fine for the purpose of self evaluation.
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby jester536 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:39 am

I have a zoom with the 2 condenser mic's , it does an alright job. That will be the next time we play for sure. I wonder the best way to capture the sound, ie like the dead in the center tapers section?

What I've noticed with mine is that you can get a pretty good recording if you place if very close to your FOH speakers...close to the horn...right in front of the woofer is complete mud. I set the recording volume pretty low...boost it on the computer later...That seems to take the crowd out a bit and brings the vocals up really clear in the mix.
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby tcsned » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:46 am

Jonny - if you're looking to get a decent representation of what your sound is like overall - Jeff's advice is good - if you want to see specifically if your laser beam of death might truly be lethal - place the recorder in it's path that should give you a "worst case scenario."
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:47 am

One thing to consider with the Fender type preamps is that the Treble knob is NOT just a treble control. It's interactive with the midrange voicing. So turning down the treble is simultaneously re-voicing the midrange dip frequency. Our ears are juggling both factors as we turn that surprisingly complex knob. One way to approach the Jerry thing is to set the preamp like him with all that big brightness and very clear midrange, and then use your guitar tone knob to tame highs. That way you're not messing with the Jerry-tone voicing but you are controlling the excessive brightness.

Another observation that many of us have made is that when we're going for the Jerry tone with similar or exact Jerry gear, we often find it brutally bright. But that's partly because we aren't driving the gear to the loudness levels like Jerry did. When you push those speakers and power amps to those stadium-stage levels like that, the tone actually becomes warmer and fuller because of the stressed out speaker motors and paper cones and the hard driven amp transistors also begin to distort and "warm over" a bit. But when many of us drive these rigs at lower volumes, the sound is TOO clean and TOO linear and TOO ice-picky and TOO crispy. And most of all, hands down is that Jerry had the magic touch to control that monster and make warmth and goodness come out of it. In the hands of lesser mortals, that amp rig is brutally unforgiving and ruthless. It demands the finest control of picking and coaxing just the right sound out of the strings. If you don't get the strings doing the right thing, that amp rig won't lie and it'll bite your head off.

Personally, I'm a pretty sloppy picker, so I've always depended on some form of amp clipping or pedal clipping to help absorb my slop. The more I try to play thru a loud and clean Jerry rig, the more my worship and admiration for his picking mastery grows.

Brad
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby jdsmodulus » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:05 am

+1 Brad...everything you said!
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby gr8fulbluz » Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:53 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:
. . .
Brad


Was readin then,
I was gonna say something, but another
___---> +1 for all that Brad said

Making me think./
I think I roll the guitar tone pot off like all the way then back up a little untill my ears stop bleedin while Keepin the volume on the guitar down and volume up on the amp/preamp. loud.
/WoW Thinkin gives me headache.

Enjoying :peas:
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Re: Live Jerry Tone Too Bright?

Postby caspersvapors » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:18 pm

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote:One thing to consider with the Fender type preamps is that the Treble knob is NOT just a treble control. It's interactive with the midrange voicing. So turning down the treble is simultaneously re-voicing the midrange dip frequency.





can you expand on this a bit more for a simlpeton like myself? As someone with a pro reverb (which has no mid control) it would be very helpful
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