Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby glocke12 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:22 am

Anyone else have trouble pulling this off in a band situation? I really think it is probably one of the most difficult songs in the deads repertoire...

Ive really only found one other person I am able to play this song with well.

Ive tried it in various band situations, but have found it a very elusive song to nail down. For the most part, people seem to get hung up on the solo parts, everyone seems to have their own interpretation of how the solos go.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby Grateful Dad » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:59 am

glocke12 wrote:Anyone else have trouble pulling this off in a band situation? I really think it is probably one of the most difficult songs in the deads repertoire...

Ive really only found one other person I am able to play this song with well.

Ive tried it in various band situations, but have found it a very elusive song to nail down. For the most part, people seem to get hung up on the solo parts, everyone seems to have their own interpretation of how the solos go.


For the solo just use the first eight bars of the verse:

A for both beats in measure one.
A for the first beat in measure two, G for the second beat in measure two.
G for the first beat in measure three, D for the second beat in measure three.
A for both beats in measure four.
Bm for the first beat in measure five, A for the second beat in measure five.
G for the first beat in measure six, D for the second beat in measure six.
D for both measures seven and eight, repeat.

Pay close attention to the rythym at the end of measure six going into measures seven and eight. This is where people seem to get hung up with the counting, don't rush it...let the "two time roll".

Hope this helps!
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby CoolBreeze » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:44 am

Pay close attention to the rythym at the end of measure six going into measures seven and eight. This is where people seem to get hung up with the counting, don't rush it...let the "two time roll".


:P

If this is the part of the song I think it is- the Dead varied the tempo widely in this part of the song depending on the year and the show. It might help to pick one version for everyone to work from- and go from there. Sometimes it was super-fast and skippy, and other times it was more slower and gooey.

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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:05 am

Glocke and Grateful Dad -
Two of my most favorite bass players !
Never been able to pull RJ off
But love the reggae vamp part to death
peace
:D
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby myoung6923 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:43 am

At the end of that I hear Jerry go back to an A for an extra beat or two before starting back again at the D - at least on 80's versions but I've also heard that on 70's versions.

But - also listening to the 80's versions I hear the Dead struggle with this part too - it seems that everyone misses it a lot when Jerry solos - but when Brent solos and Jerry carries the rhythm then they get it.

If I get a chance later I'll post an example of it.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby tcsned » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:11 am

Yeah, we haven't done that tune in a few years but the lead breaks were always a little squirrely - I remember trying to figure it out at the time from some 80s Dead tapes and they seemed to have trouble with it too. We restarted straight from the D and that at least kept everyone on the same page.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby strumminsix » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:31 am

Timing and chords are the issue with that song.

Intro is not the outro.

Line 1 of the verse: | A// G / D A / |

The D in line 2 holds for 5

This song is the epitome of "I know Row Jimmy" when nobody takes the time to listen and really learn Row Jimmy.

Been through it more than a few times. This band has it but others were trainwrecks...
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:04 am

Tennessee Jedi wrote:Glocke and Grateful Dad -
Two of my most favorite bass players !
Never been able to pull RJ off
But love the reggae vamp part to death
peace
:D


Huh. I always kinda hope we skip the reggae vamp. I like the 70's versions that seem a little more "pure" to me... they let the song breathe as it is rather than changing to another groove that really isn't all that good or tight. Although I do like to flash some quick eighths during it just to show that I am getting sorta good at playing with a pick.

I'd probably be attached to the reggae part if I'd gotten to see it live... I bet it sounded awesome on a warm summer night at Great Woods and venues like that.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby jeffm725 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:49 am

myoung6923 wrote:At the end of that I hear Jerry go back to an A for an extra beat or two before starting back again at the D - at least on 80's versions but I've also heard that on 70's versions.

But - also listening to the 80's versions I hear the Dead struggle with this part too - it seems that everyone misses it a lot when Jerry solos - but when Brent solos and Jerry carries the rhythm then they get it.

If I get a chance later I'll post an example of it.


This is a spot on synopsis.

As far as playing it in a Dead cover band, it really depends on how well the drummer and bass player know it. They have to KNOW the song. There are many dead tunes a good professional musician can play without being an obsessive Dead Head. Row Jimmy is NOT one of those tunes. It is a great indicator of a musicians "Deadness".

By the way, I am with Jedi, I LOVE the reggaefied ending. 1985 had some really extended ones.
.......................................................have you heard the one about the yellow dog?
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:00 am

:smile:
Gonna try RJ this week end !
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby rugger » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:12 am

Never liked that song, nor had the inclination to play it.

I know, I know, who asked me anyways!

John in San Diego
Last edited by rugger on Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby Emoto » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:15 pm

Whenever I try to play it with others, at least one of the other players always rushes the change to the next chord. Pisses me off. :lol:
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there...
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby mijknahs » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:03 am

Our band finally figured out what problem was in the solo. Instead of playing it exactly like the verse with the 5 (or 10) Ds at the end, land on A for the last beat before starting over at the A at the top. No extra beats or anything. Just substitute an A for the last D.

Bm A G D D D D A - then back to the top A of the solo (or back to singing the verse). Makes it flow much easier.

Here's a good example of this.

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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby jahozer » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:31 am

I love the look on Bobby, after he nails the change in the solo. He's like, "go fuck yourself row jimmy change!"
Its stuff like this that annoys me when musicians try to fake their way through the dead.
Some kid on PT Phish was calling Bobby a hack the other day. Haters gonna hate, I guess. Even deadheads, do it, too. I was in some bar and they start playing some killer live Dead. I think it was even Row Jimmy, and I was commenting on how I have to have another beer now, and this guy said oh, I gave them these tapes. Well we start talking, and I tell him I play, he says he does and so on, but then he starts bashing Bobby. I start saying that yes there is a certain cheese factor vocally with him at times, but one of the best rhythm player in the business, and that his parts are often more complex than Jerrys, etc... I told him that I actually learn both parts and end up playing either depending on how we break it up, etc.
Well he starts saying all this shit like oh, your a bobby lover, making fun of my guitar (a 79 es335) calling it a bobby guitar, then he starts challenging me what era the songs we are listening to, etc. I literally wanted to fight this guy.
I invited him to play anytime he wanted, and if he accepted, I was going to go against every fiber of my getting along musically with others, and smoke the piss out of this jerkoff. He never accepted.
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Re: Anyone else have trouble with RJ in a band?

Postby myoung6923 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:08 am

mijknahs wrote:Our band finally figured out what problem was in the solo. Instead of playing it exactly like the verse with the 5 (or 10) Ds at the end, land on A for the last beat before starting over at the A at the top. No extra beats or anything. Just substitute an A for the last D.

Bm A G D D D D A - then back to the top A of the solo (or back to singing the verse). Makes it flow much easier.


That's EXACTLY right!

That's what I've been saying!
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