Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby steve » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:09 am

I'm in the market for a new amp and after extensive research I've narrowed my options down to a Princeton Reverb and a Deluxe Reverb. As finding vintage model is both difficult and expensive-I can't really manage anything upwards of $1000-I'm contemplating going with a reissue. Brad, you really think the reissues aren't worthy at all of purchasing?

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: I'd completely pass on any of the Fender reissue stuff. Not great amps at all. They can sound ok, but seem to miss the mark a bit. And the reissues suck to work on. Real Fender (hand wired point to point) amps are the best when it comes to servicing or tweaking. More mojo.
Brad


Jedi, you seem to think the same way:

Tennessee Jedi wrote:I would stay away from the re-issues .....
There is always someone checking in here with R.I. "issues" .....
They wont last 30/40 years like the real deal
:D


Primary use for the amp would be at home. On weekends I usually jam with a few other people so I need something that can keep up with another guitar, bass, and drums. On the flip side, I need something that can produce a solid sound at a low volume. I'm worried that the DR would be a bit too powerful for the moment. I may want something for gigging at some point in the future, but I don't want to necessarily buy that amp now. Plus, it seems the Princeton can get pretty loud with a speaker change:

SarnoMusicSolutions wrote: Sonically, the K110 is just a fantastic and musical sounding speaker. The E110 is a bit less "juicy", but still sounds very similar and great. A D110 may sound the best overall, maybe not as good with deep bass, and again, they are delicate. The K110 is all I've been using for the past 6 months or so. 12 watts of Princeton power and it's amazingly loud. That's the cool thing about JBL's, their efficiency. If you put a K120 in a Deluxe Reverb, it'll make it as loud as a 40 watt Fender amp with a "normal" speaker.
B


This also has tips for increasing the power of the Princeton: http://www.tonequest.com/articles/article2.htm

I think if I were to go with a Princeton, the JBL K110 would be my speaker upgrade choice, assuming I could locate one. Do you guys use ebay to find speakers? I searched my local CL and came up with nothing.

Tigerstrat, what's your experience with the PRRI? If a vintage is unattainable would you rate the RI as a worthwhile investment?

tigerstrat wrote:
strumminsix wrote:My first inclination would be for a Princeton Reverb. Not for the wattage but for the reverb.


+1. A Princeton Reverb (or the RI if you must) is imho the perfect low wattage plug-n-play amp to put you in the right section of the ballpark. Any of the lower wattage tube Fenders with reverb will do pretty nicely.


My current (garbage) amp has led to my acoustic/electric ratio being somewhere near 90/10. I love my electric, but with my current amp setup I just can't get a tone that makes me want to keep on playing. I'm hoping to sort out this situation within a couple of week time, month max, so any additional input is greatly appreciated. I've covered most of the topics on this board and a variety of others regarding the Princeton and Deluxe, but I'm still feeling rather indecisive. I was pretty set on the PRRI, but after seeing what a few of you folks said about the reissues I'm thinking twice...
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby jdsmodulus » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:17 am

Years ago, I bought a new RI Twin (evil) 100w. This seemed to be a great amp at the time. I finally just couldnt get a good tone and gave up. It was real nice looking road case and all but once I played a "real" Twin the RI had to go. I too would stay away from any of the RI amps.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby Ender » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:26 am

I had a DRRI and there was just barely enough headroom for jerry style tones. I doubt the princeton will be able to get clean and loud. It might be loud enough when cranked but it will get crunchy.

Then again...
Ive never played a princeton
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby JonnyBoy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:29 am

Referring to the original post::

The reissues are awesome if you can work on amps. And for god's sake it is not THAT much harder to work on than a Point to point. The labeling of the components makes it easier for the lay person to do mods.... Don't let the opinions of preference with a solder iron distract you from THE EXACT circuits of the blackface amps of old, they just use cheaper parts on the inside. the only stuff that matters to swap out IMO that has helped me get the tone I want was the waldo mods (plate resistors, tone stack, higher voltage and better quality filter caps). After that is accomplished you will have an awesome sounding amp. IF YOU DON'T PLAN TO MOD IT GET AN OLD ONE!

Some of these opinions I think are a little strong when they are the EXACT circuit of a 1965 blackface, just cheap Chinese resistors and caps, which i agree does change the tone for the worse, but on a scale of 7 out of 10. Like I said, if you can follow directions and are handy, you can have you a real 1965 blackface that is NEW and sounds as good. Oh yhea, put some good speakers in there like the stock jensen's if you have the choice, or replace with a vintage JBL(s).

Some of the guys that dislike the reissues are not use to working on them v's the point to point and prefer the old school ways of things, not really that they are a bad amp. I think they think "why buy one when you can get a point to point cheaper since you are doing mods anyway to get the good tone?" Again that is my assumption.... and I can see how many dislike them right out of the box....
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby strumminsix » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:34 am

Dude, impressive searches to help in your question. For about $1000 you can buy a Fargen DR-type or 40W-half twin type.

That would be my final recommendation. Check one out:
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/msg/2201911589.html
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby strumminsix » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:37 am

Small amps rock. Folks are gonna come in here and say you need all this wattage and I think that's just crap.

I gig constantly with a 15w Fargen Mod'd Fender Blues Jr at 15 watts and am clean when told to turn down.

You will only need louder when:
1. You band's goal is to get tinnitus
2. You are playing medium sized bars without sound reinforcement and in those I can do it with a DR style Fargen EASILY.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby JonnyBoy » Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:41 am

strumminsix wrote:Small amps rock. Folks are gonna come in here and say you need all this wattage and I think that's just crap.

I gig constantly with a 15w Fargen Mod'd Fender Blues Jr at 15 watts and am clean when told to turn down.

You will only need louder when:
1. You band's goal is to get tinnitus
2. You are playing medium sized bars without sound reinforcement and in those I can do it with a DR style Fargen EASILY.




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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby steve » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:02 am

Thanks for the quick replies!

JonnyBoy, I've never done amp work, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't try. If I did go that route, I'd probably make the changes you suggested. Having to work on a brand new amp in order to get the desired tone is a put off-putting, however. In searching for vintage models of consistently come up empty-handed.

Strummin, I have absolutely no knowledge of Fargen. From what I've read it seems to be a solid company. While researching the Princeton and Deluxe I came across some of your posts mentioning Fargen and checked out the website and saw only heads. What you linked to looks promising. It's a bit more more cash than I was hoping to spend, but when purchasing products you expect to have a long life, shelling out a bit of extra cash isn't always a bad thing. How would you rate the tone of the Fargen compared to a Fender? I think the 40W would be a bit more oomph than I need. 15/20W could be just about right.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby strumminsix » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:14 am

steve wrote:Strummin, I have absolutely no knowledge of Fargen. From what I've read it seems to be a solid company. While researching the Princeton and Deluxe I came across some of your posts mentioning Fargen and checked out the website and saw only heads. What you linked to looks promising. It's a bit more more cash than I was hoping to spend, but when purchasing products you expect to have a long life, shelling out a bit of extra cash isn't always a bad thing. How would you rate the tone of the Fargen compared to a Fender? I think the 40W would be a bit more oomph than I need. 15/20W could be just about right.


Rating = Outstanding

Since being introduced to Fargen amps I've not purchased another Fender but purchased 2 other Fargens (40w custom, 20 watt DR style, mod'd Blues Jr)

His amps are all PTP so they can be maintained by anyone. My amp tech said to put mine in my will since it'll outlast me and I'm in my 30s :-)

New, his combos are 2k ish hence the used l sent. I see them go for less on TheGearPage but just nothing up now.

His "hot rodded" amp sell in your price range. He used to do a DRRI and saw one go on eBay for around 900 I think.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby Pete B. » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:17 am

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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby steve » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:34 am

strumminsix wrote:Rating = Outstanding

Since being introduced to Fargen amps I've not purchased another Fender but purchased 2 other Fargens (40w custom, 20 watt DR style, mod'd Blues Jr)

His amps are all PTP so they can be maintained by anyone. My amp tech said to put mine in my will since it'll outlast me and I'm in my 30s :-)

New, his combos are 2k ish hence the used l sent. I see them go for less on TheGearPage but just nothing up now.

His "hot rodded" amp sell in your price range. He used to do a DRRI and saw one go on eBay for around 900 I think.


And you think the price for that combo is about right, yeah? I figure if I got the Princeton it would need some extra help to achieve what I'm going for and that would likely put me in the ballpark of what that Fargen is listed for. I'm assuming that amp would be good to go as is. Without plugging in and giving it a go it's sort of tough to make a decision. I've got a Modulus though, same as yours minus the pickup swap, so I imagine if yours sounds good through them mine would as well. I ultimately want an amp that can give me a good, clean tone at decent volume levels and has that breakup ability without driving it so high that my ears start to bleed. Obviously good reverb is a must, one of the reasons I've been checking out the Fenders.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby steve » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:49 am



Thanks, Pete. The Twin I think would be far too powerful for my current needs. That's a nice looking Princeton, but I was hoping for something with built-in reverb, and I don't believe that particular model has it.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby strumminsix » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:55 am

For some reason, Steve, I thought you were a Bobby player since you have the Modulus. One in thing with those pickups is that you are gonna hit the preamp really hard which could drive into early overdrive. Those pickups are H-O-T! Mine were swapped out for old school wound singles. I do use that amp with humbuckers (pearly gates * lollar minis) and get plenty of headroom.

I think the fair price for that amp is about 1100. But considering it has the Cali speaker which is a local favorite maybe worth a couple bucks more. I would not, by contrast, buy one with a Greenback since I don't care for them and would wonder if was tuned for it.

It's tough buying used sight unseen but I've done paypal w/a credit card for double protection and been fine. I'd say get the guy on the phone and use your gut instinct.

For the record, I have zero affiliation. I'm not pushing you. If you can wait they come up on eBay and TGP every couple weeks.
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby rugger » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:06 am

Get the biggest amp for your needs, which like mine, are modest. In other words, as Strummin mentioned, go small. I don't gig but play the occasional party. I play with two 5 watt champs with one group and I'm plenty loud. When I bring my Deluxe to my "loud" group I can't run the thing above 2.5--3. To hit the sweet spot with the Fenders you need to get it to about 3.5--4.5. So unless you are playing larger rooms/clubs, frankly the Deluxe is too big, IMO.

Personally, I dig the vintage stuff, but there are plenty of folks that think the Princeton Reissue is a very nice amp. There has been a fair amount of discussion on this over on The Gear Page you should check out (a really informative site btw). Here is a link to one: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=824244

Once I discovered the playing of Jim Campilongo, and what he does with a Princeton (and a telecaster), I was sold--and of course I had to get one!




Good Luck!

John in San Diego
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Re: Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb

Postby steve » Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:17 am

strumminsix wrote:For some reason, Steve, I thought you were a Bobby player since you have the Modulus. One in thing with those pickups is that you are gonna hit the preamp really hard which could drive into early overdrive. Those pickups are H-O-T! Mine were swapped out for old school wound singles. I do use that amp with humbuckers (pearly gates * lollar minis) and get plenty of headroom.

I think the fair price for that amp is about 1100. But considering it has the Cali speaker which is a local favorite maybe worth a couple bucks more. I would not, by contrast, buy one with a Greenback since I don't care for them and would wonder if was tuned for it.

It's tough buying used sight unseen but I've done paypal w/a credit card for double protection and been fine. I'd say get the guy on the phone and use your gut instinct.

For the record, I have zero affiliation. I'm not pushing you. If you can wait they come up on eBay and TGP every couple weeks.


I do tend to be more on the Bobby end of things, but I trade off on lead with the other guitarist when we're jamming. Since we haven't gotten to the gigging stage yet we haven't fallen into concrete places. I don't know if I could ever could ever wholly give up lead playing. I'm considerably more dead-oriented in my playing than the others I play with. With that guitar I can get a great tone in the neck/middle position. With lead it varies, but I'm hoping to get an amp that'll give me a good enough tone with both.
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