Jerry's large neck bow

Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby strumminsix » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:27 am

I think folks are confusing neck relief with the string height you get from raising the bridge.

I'll still hold if he had that much relief due to the bow in his neck his intonation would be for shit and his notes in the middle of the guitar (say 5-12) would fret out in the upper register.

I don't doubt Jerry played with high action but I think he got it from a combo of neck angle + bridge height.

Plus think about it... most folks say his acoustic @ Radio City was setup for lower action to easily switch over to his electric and he was buzzing all night.
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby TI4-1009 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:30 am

KCJones wrote:
billy_v wrote:(Of course, it's been years since Jer had them set up, so who's to say whether they're any longer set up to his preference.)


So true. That's why I don't give much creedance to any presented measurements as being "Garcia's setup". And, I need to do a truss rod adjustment usually once, sometimes twice/year on my guitars simply because climate conditions winter to summer can change the action and neck relief considerably. Therefore, IMHO, any measurements beyond the last time Jerry played those instruments, or current measurements, are simply that, current, and have no historic value.


Agree- except for Gary Brawer's specs, since he's the one who did the actual setups on Jerry's guitars.
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby TI4-1009 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:37 am

strumminsix wrote:...and he was buzzing all night.


I'm not goin' there :lol:
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby strumminsix » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:43 am

TI4-1009 wrote:
KCJones wrote:
billy_v wrote:(Of course, it's been years since Jer had them set up, so who's to say whether they're any longer set up to his preference.)


So true. That's why I don't give much creedance to any presented measurements as being "Garcia's setup". And, I need to do a truss rod adjustment usually once, sometimes twice/year on my guitars simply because climate conditions winter to summer can change the action and neck relief considerably. Therefore, IMHO, any measurements beyond the last time Jerry played those instruments, or current measurements, are simply that, current, and have no historic value.


Agree- except for Gary Brawer's specs, since he's the one who did the actual setups on Jerry's guitars.


Very true but where/what are those numbers?
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby TI4-1009 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:24 pm

Setups of The Stars - J.Garcia's Tiger

Guitar Player - April 1, 2001

By Gary Brawer

Jerry Garcia's guitars, built by luthier Doug Irwin, are as much one-of-a-kind works of art as they are musical instruments. I worked on Garcia's guitars for years, and I still get questions about them.
This guitar is called "Tiger" because of the beautiful inlay on the battery/preamp compartment cover. The body is made up of many layers of wood including what appears to be a Cocabola top and back with a maple center section (which may be hollowed out in parts). Sandwiched in between are thin layers of paduk, purpleheart, and brass. The maple neck has a hardwood section (possibly paduk) inlayed in the back and the ebony fretboard has brass binding.
Garcia played with high action--7/64" at the 12th fret, with .030" relief in the neck. At the nut, the strings a were also quite high at about .030" above the 1st fret. The ebony fingerboard has a 16" radius and sports. 105" x .45" frets. The neck and middle pickups are 10/64" from the strings, and the bridge pickup sits 14/64" away. (The bridge was made by Schaller for Gibson, and the tailpiece was custom made for the guitar.) The brass nut is scalloped between the strings, and the spacing--as specified by Garcia--is equal between the edges of the strings (as opposed to the centers of the strings being equidistant, which is more common). Garcia used Vinci strings, gauged .010-.046. but from time to time used an .011 on the high E and a .047 on the low E. --GARY BRAWER, http://www.brawer.com

http://www.wald-electronics.com/tiger.html
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby strumminsix » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:01 pm

TI4-1009 wrote:[b]Garcia played with high action--7/64" at the 12th fret, with .030" relief in the neck.

Google says that's about 76.mm so think of a light pick. I don't consider that all that high; mine is roughly a yellow Dunlop so that's 73.

High action, yes, not insane.

I'd also hypothesize that Kimock's experience is more likely caused by a high nut that neck relief. When the nut isn't cut properly you'll have tuning and playability issues.
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby Tennessee Jedi » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:15 pm

Dont you mean JIMMY"S bow ??????
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby waldo041 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:29 am

strumminsix wrote:
TI4-1009 wrote:[b]Garcia played with high action--7/64" at the 12th fret, with .030" relief in the neck.

Google says that's about 76.mm so think of a light pick. I don't consider that all that high; mine is roughly a yellow Dunlop so that's 73.

High action, yes, not insane.



the neck relief was .030".

for string height, 7/64th is 2.78mm at the 12th fret. gary doesn't give both first fret measurements but in mm(inches) they are
1st fret low e = 1.17mm(.046")
1st fret high e = .787mm(.031")

12th fret (brawer) 2.78mm(.109")

24th fret low e = 3.17mm(.125")
24th fret high e = 3.17mm(.125")

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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby waldo041 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:36 am

KCJones wrote:
billy_v wrote:(Of course, it's been years since Jer had them set up, so who's to say whether they're any longer set up to his preference.)


So true. That's why I don't give much creedance to any presented measurements as being "Garcia's setup". And, I need to do a truss rod adjustment usually once, sometimes twice/year on my guitars simply because climate conditions winter to summer can change the action and neck relief considerably. Therefore, IMHO, any measurements beyond the last time Jerry played those instruments, or current measurements, are simply that, current, and have no historic value.



valid point i believe if it were one guitar observation, but all of his guitars, wolf, tiger, rosebud, bolt, tophat, and wolf Jr had relatively the same numbers. if your reservation were true the numbers would be sporadic, but they were pretty consistent. so while i understand your point, the evidence does show this is how it was/is

also, climate can change the action and neck relief considerably, but not every guitar will be affected by it. Jerry is quoted stating that tiger had never needed a truss rod adjustment. so it probably never had one. i live just outside chicago where the climate is always changing, and my ebony fretboard guitars seem to never need an adjustment, ymmv.

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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby Pete B. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 9:27 am

A possible (overlooked?) consideration in Jerry's mind... Players with the intention of playing slide-guitar will set up their axe so that they can slide fluently without fretting out (i.e. Higher action).
It's a fair bet that Jer knew Bobby was gonna call a tune that he would taking a slide solo on, pretty much any night.
He also played slide with JGB.

Are there any other "technical quotes" from Jerry and/or the Set-up techs, Irwin?, etc... explainging "why" he set his axe up to the reported specs?
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Re: Jerry's large neck bow

Postby tcsned » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:37 am

Pete B. wrote:A possible (overlooked?) consideration in Jerry's mind... Players with the intention of playing slide-guitar will set up their axe so that they can slide fluently without fretting out (i.e. Higher action).
It's a fair bet that Jer knew Bobby was gonna call a tune that he would taking a slide solo on, pretty much any night.
He also played slide with JGB.

Are there any other "technical quotes" from Jerry and/or the Set-up techs, Irwin?, etc... explainging "why" he set his axe up to the reported specs?

Pete, it's certainly possible but considering he usually played slide only once or twice a night, setting up a guitar for about 5-10% of a show and making it difficult to play otherwise might not be the best choice. I think he was just really into getting as pure a note as possible and higher action is the way to go, though it certainly makes playing slide a lot more effective if you don't play with low action. Two birds with one stone. Lots of his contemporaries like Pete Townsend and Jimi were also high action guys too.
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