.022's in the tonestack?

.022's in the tonestack?

Postby Imagined Days » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:31 am

So I just saw on a respected sources website that Jerry's Twin had .022's in the tonestack instead of the normal .1 and .047. So, I don't buy it, and if it is true, when was this change supposedly made?

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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby Stevo123 » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:42 am

Don't know what jerry used, but as far as theoretical results, .022s in the mids will keep more mids around than some of the other higher value capacitors commonly used in fender amps, and .022 in the bass will cause the bass frequencies to drop off at a higher value and lose a lot more overall bass than the .1. So, theoretically, .022s seem to make sense for jerry (more bass cut and less mid scoop), but I don't know if he actually used them.
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby waldo041 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:48 am

Imagined Days wrote:So I just saw on a respected sources website that Jerry's Twin had .022's in the tonestack instead of the normal .1 and .047. So, I don't buy it, and if it is true, when was this change supposedly made?

Chris


nothing to buy, it comes free.

i can say that doing the mod does tilt in favor of it being there. it is by no means a secret mod, others have done it. using the duncan tonestack calculator, and the known jerry twin settings, show a pretty identical curve between the stock values and the .022uFs. the difference being the sharper bass rolloff with the .022uF's.

here is some samples of tonestacks with the .022uF's. these also have all the other mods as well as the TPC1 preamp buffer, but as you will see/hear, these mods pretty much nail jerry's gear tone.





that all said, there is a disclaimer on that webpage also,

The Details

While the insides of these amps have never been seen by the public, and obviously were "work in progress", these "Upgrades" to the Fender Twin reverbs are mostly Per "Insider's" Instructions and personal comments on the subject. There are still unknowns, and further research is ongoing. This is a well researched attempt to show how and where certain "Modifications" were done to Jerry's Twin Reverbs.



peace,
waldo
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby gr8fullfred » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:54 am

I thought that there was a thread on the "healy" mods to the twin reverb. But I cant seem to find it now. Found this one on the Steel Guitar Forum which mentions Brad Sarno (who I hope to meet someday). I would like to get this info together so that I might modify my 64 twin.

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/004096.html

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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby Imagined Days » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:24 am

Waldo, Thank You very much for the free info!! Didn't mean any disrespect by saying i don't buy it! So, I will give this a shot, but still feel that it will brown the sound out. Marshal's use these values in their tonestacks I think? It goes against clarity in tone. Also, I prefer Jerry's 77' tone, and assume he was at stock values in his tonestack of his Twin then? Ya' think?

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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:27 am

That old steel guitar forum thread is a blast from the past. I remember that introduction to Healy's suggestion of trying tantalum cathode bypass cap's. At the time I tried these fairly high quality German made dipped tantalum cap's. My posting there about the hi-fi response was written soon after trying it. I have to admit that after a few more weeks of it, I grew a bit tired of the high treble response, a bit TOO glassy and crisp for my ears. So I abandoned it and for the years since I've grown to like various other higher-fidelity electrolytic capacitors for that job. It wasn't until this year that Waldo helped to point out that Healy's choice of tantalum was not the dipped style, but instead a particular military-spec axial style that indeed has a different tone. So I gave it a shot again this year when tinkering with the more Jerry oriented preamp tones and found that after a few dozen hours of break-in time, these nice mil-spec tantalums sound much more in line with what I associate with Jerry's bright, clear, zingy, and lively tone. It's still a kind of crispy edge that is apparently the nature of tantalum, but these tant's are much smoother and nicer sounding than any of the epoxy dipped types I've tried. I don't always necessarily prefer these good tantalum cap's for everything (guitar, steel, etc.) over some of the smoother, silkier sounding high quality electroltyics out there, but for a Jerry-ish tone, they seem spot on.

Healy's still my audio hero.

Brad
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby SarnoMusicSolutions » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:31 am

Imagined Days wrote:Waldo, Thank You very much for the free info!! Didn't mean any disrespect by saying i don't buy it! So, I will give this a shot, but still feel that it will brown the sound out. Marshal's use these values in their tonestacks I think? It goes against clarity in tone. Also, I prefer Jerry's 77' tone, and assume he was at stock values in his tonestack of his Twin then? Ya' think?

Chris


The .022+.022 mod won't brown it out at all. Consider that the marshall also uses a different slope resistor value, and that may be what you hear. The .022 mod only affects the deep bass and offers a bit of warmth in the low, low mids, but the main midrange and treble are 100% UN-affected by this. Actually, by tightening up the bass you actually get a bit more punch and presence. And like Waldo pointed out, with the Jerry tone settings, the .022 mod and the .047 don't really sound all that different other than the .022 being a bit tighter in the low bass.

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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby RiverRat » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:15 am

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Last edited by RiverRat on Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby tigerstrat » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:22 am

I happen to love it, but then again I don't know how much of the improvement was switching to the .022's, or how much of it was switching the cap material to mylar.
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby Stevo123 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:25 am

I had a bunch of mods done to my blues jr which included changing the stock .022 bass filter cap to a .1. While I can get a sound I like with a lot of heavy EQing of the bass with a pedal, it's pretty impractical for a more midrange or treble focused tone (all GD tones lol). Without any other EQ to dial it back the bass can get pretty unruly at high volumes, even with bass zero'd out on the amp. The .022, at least theoretically (tone stack calc), creates kind of a soft high-pass filter that tapers gradually below 100hz. The .1 just flattens out that curve to allow a lot of frequencies that are below the lowest note you can play on a guitar (I think low E is 80hz?). Some amps are probably designed better to handle more of those subs but mine isn't! When I first put the .1 in the stock speaker just farted out the low notes. I think the extra load might be contributing to extra unwanted distortion in my PI tube as well.

So yeah I'll be changing that cap back to a .022 as soon as possible heh.

Btw I should mention I play with humbuckers mostly so this is from that perspective.
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby MTA61 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:58 pm

Hi Waldo, do you know what the slope resistor and treble cap values are in the tone stack on those sound clips? Are they left stock or changed as well?
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Re: .022's in the tonestack?

Postby waldo041 » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:30 am

MTA61 wrote:Hi Waldo, do you know what the slope resistor and treble cap values are in the tone stack on those sound clips? Are they left stock or changed as well?


slope resistor = stock
treble cap value = stock, but material swapped to Silver Mica.

http://www.wald-electronics.com/preampmods.html

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