Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Jon S. » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:07 pm

Long story short. Built guitar 1 (actually, my luthier/tech Phil Jacoby www.philtone.com did; he also built #2 - that one by hand) using a Warmoth body and neck. Played it for a year, using it as a prototype and parts source for guitar 2. Guitar 2 is now and likely forever my #1. I'm now reassembling guitar 1. I'm routing guitar 1's body for 3 humbuckers. I'm leaning towards Super 2s for the middle and neck and a Super Distortion for the bridge. Guitar 2 has the full Jerry electronics: unity gain buffer and on board effects loop. Guitar 1 doesn't. I'm not presently planning to add either.

Here are my questions: will the Super 2s and Super Distortion still sound Jerry-ish on guitar 1 without the unity gain buffer? And if not, are there other PUPs that would?

Thanks, guys.

guitar 1:
Image

guitar 2:
Image
Last edited by Jon S. on Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Imagined Days » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:40 pm

I use 3 super distortions on my guitar and it is very Jerry Like! I am a '77 tone junky. I currently have Super Distortions in the Bridge and neck, with a Super II in the middle. I just did this and have not tested it out at practice yet. I must say though, I loved the sound with 3 SD's! I am just trying things out for fun. I hated the guitar with 3 super II's in it. Sounded thin and dinky, but every guitar is different. Jerry used Dual Sounds which are exactly the same as Super Distortions, he later '82, switched to the Super II's.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby jdsmodulus » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:41 pm

Is guitar 2 a Warmoth? How about the neck on both?
IMO you should get 3 supers and a Waldo buffer and OBEL for guitar 1
I really does depend on the era though. You might want to use each guitar for a different era, similar approach but different pups! Nice guitars by the way!
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Imagined Days » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:42 pm

Sorry, didn't see the UGB aspect to your question. I wouldn't know cause I always had the Buffer in the guitar.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Jon S. » Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:47 pm

jdsmodulus wrote:Is guitar 2 a Warmoth? How about the neck on both?
IMO you should get 3 supers and a Waldo buffer and OBEL for guitar 1
I really does depend on the era though. You might want to use each guitar for a different era, similar approach but different pups! Nice guitars by the way!

#2 is a one-off Philtone Jerrycaster hand-built by Phil Jacoby of Philtone Guitars. http://www.philtone.com The set neck is a 5 piece sapele-maple-padouk-maple-sapele build (pic below). To me, it feels and sounds similar to a maple neck. The Warmoth neck on #1 is a bolt on mahogany neck.

I kind of don't want to go overboard now on #1 because I'm so totally stoked on #2, however, I will take your sagacious counsel into advisement. :smile:

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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby DeadAheadNH » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:33 am

Maybe Santa can bring you Waldo Buffer for GUIT1 .... I think they should be standard on any amplified instrument regardless of OBEL
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Jon S. » Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:23 pm

Two quick followup questions, if I may.

(1) According to Mike's web page, his buffer is set at slightly below unity gain - why?

Audio Clip Sample:

These Sample Clips were recorded by Vic DeRobertis's with his Resurrection Tiger (D'addario 10's / Adamas 2mm Pick) , and his previous stage rig consisting of a Modded Twin Reverb> Focus 2R amplifier> 2 JBL E120's in his home studio. All sample clips were recorded with identical parameters. However, because the TPC-1 is slightly less then Unity, the recording volume was slighty raised to match recorded outputs. you can check Vic and his talented band out at his links below;


Edit: I did find this on another thread:

waldo041 wrote:
Bear62 wrote:OK, You guys have convinced me after playing my Resurrection for 5 yrs w/ the CB-1. I am going to order a TPC1. I even bought the heat shrink tubing today to splice it in. Question, Is the CB-1 a UGB. What is the difference in gain between it and the TPC1. Thanks, Grateful Gregg
Bear's Choice NW burbs of Chicago- GO CUBS. Has anyone seen Comiskey Park recently??? LMAO!


the differece is slight and is equal to about pushing your preamp/amp another notch up. so if you played the cb1 with 4 for volume on the preamp/amp with the TPC1 you may find yourself at 5 on the volume.

and you know that sox fans don't go to the actual games, they only sell out the "jail "cell when the cubs or yankees are playing there! :lol:

peace,
waldo



(2) According to Dimarzio's web page, this is the difference between a Super Distortion and a Dual Sound:

Take a Super Distortion®, include a push-pull pot for series-parallel or single-coil operation and you have the Dual Sound®.


Otherwise, the specs look identical. What gives?! Can I simply buy an extra aftermarket push-pull pot, connect it to a Super Distortion, and have the same thing?
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby drewfx » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:44 pm

Jon S. wrote:(2) According to Dimarzio's web page, this is the difference between a Super Distortion and a Dual Sound:

Take a Super Distortion®, include a push-pull pot for series-parallel or single-coil operation and you have the Dual Sound®.


Otherwise, the specs look identical. What gives?! Can I simply buy an extra aftermarket push-pull pot, connect it to a Super Distortion, and have the same thing?


The original Super Distortions were 2 conductor. The Dual Sound was an otherwise identical 4 conductor version of the SD. But now the SD's are 4 conductor as well, so they are identical. Dimarzio just kept using both names because people are familiar with them.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby waldo041 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:05 pm

Jon S. wrote:Two quick followup questions, if I may.

(1) According to Mike's web page, his buffer is set at slightly below unity gain - why?



because the tpc1 is an actual clone of the preamp buffer used in jerry's tiger.

peace,
waldo
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Bear62 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:14 pm

I wish my guitar w/ Waldo's TPC1sm had the capability to go passive because it just adds to the available tone palette! Sometimes one just wants that vintage tone. So it all depends on what sound you want out of #1. I know that Scott Walker offers this option in his guitars. Perhaps someone who has played one can shed some light on the sound w/o buffer!

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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Jon S. » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:16 am

waldo041 wrote:
Jon S. wrote:Two quick followup questions, if I may.

(1) According to Mike's web page, his buffer is set at slightly below unity gain - why?



because the tpc1 is an actual clone of the preamp buffer used in jerry's tiger.

peace,
waldo

I guess what I meant to ask is, why was the preamp buffer in Jerry's guitar set slightly below unity gain?

Was it a pre-conceived decision by someone (the builder? Jerry? his tech? ) to achieve a specific tone -or- one of those happy musical accidents/artifacts that, because it happened and was kept, has become associated with Jerry's tone as a result?
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby JonnyBoy » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:25 am

I may be wrong, but I thought it to be because of "the times" it was invented for guitar and the idea of a buffer is a basic circuit used in many electronic circuits to accomplish this low impedance signal, or to invert it too. The buffer circuit can be made with a transistor(s) or an opamp(s), and using opamps get you closer to unity gain. The simple version Jerry used was adequate enough, I am thinking to keep the coloration to the signal down.
I think when Waldo says not quite unity gain, he means its so close it barely matters. The circuit can be refined to get the signal to unity gain much like the more modern versions, but its not what Jerry used. Again, this is what I think I understand about it.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Jon S. » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:39 am

That makes sense, JonnyBoy. Another thought that crossed my mind is that Twin Reverbs are so damn loud anyway as are certain SS power amps, perhaps someone figured it can't hurt to pad the input signal some to allow you to crank the amps up to their sweet spots more often.

Signed, A Fellow JonnyBoy :smile:
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby tigerstrat » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:13 pm

Imagined Days wrote:I use 3 super distortions on my guitar and it is very Jerry Like! I am a '77 tone junky. I currently have Super Distortions in the Bridge and neck, with a Super II in the middle. I just did this and have not tested it out at practice yet. I must say though, I loved the sound with 3 SD's! I am just trying things out for fun. I hated the guitar with 3 super II's in it. Sounded thin and dinky, but every guitar is different. Jerry used Dual Sounds which are exactly the same as Super Distortions, he later '82, switched to the Super II's.


Garcia didn't use Supers until mid-'78, when the Wolf got them. Throughout '77, he had the TB500 and the Wolf, both sporting 3 single coils.
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Re: Dimarzio Super 2 questions

Postby Imagined Days » Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:28 am

Yeah, I know, but with my guitar set up, it seems the closest I can get to that era's tone.
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