Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby Grateful Dad » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:57 am

marcuskeyser wrote:Hi all ... I just wanted to give you guys a "heads up" on the one book that has done more for my playing than all the lessons in the world. It gave me so much foundation and I only recently learned to appreciate that now that I'm the "Bobby" guy in my latest project.

Here is the link to amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Chords-Progressio ... 415&sr=8-1

I like this book because it summarized everything I knew about rhythm and harmony in the first 10 pages and then blew my mind from there. It's old school Jazz inversions rooted on all the strings, tightly voiced chords with an emphasis on chordal melodies and movements, substitution theory and comping techniques. I forget if it goes into quartal harmony and Stacked Fifths but you can google that as needed.


Hey Marcus!
I just ordered the book based on your reccommendation, the reviews, and going to several music stores looking for a book comparable to that one with no success. Thanks for the link.
Dave

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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby DeadAheadNH » Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:48 am

hi ... let me know how that goes for you !!!! This book is great to do in spurts ... it takes a while to memorize the fingerings of the inversions but once that's over with I think the practice examples really force you to apply the skills up and down the fretboard. HAVE FUN and happy playing :P
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby Stevo123 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:49 am

I have that book myself, and it's ok for seeing some different chord forms. Although the biggest thing IMO is to see the root-fifth combinations all the way up the neck. A lot of guitar books out there teach that the rhythm guitarist should focus on the 3rd and 7th of the chord and omit the root and fifth. But I've found this is exactly the opposite of how most Dead material is played. Most bob stuff I've found revolves around upper register root-fifth combinations, with thirds and sevenths played more sparingly and an occasional ninth. Stick to two note voicings and fill voids where no one else is playing.
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby strumminsix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:56 am

Stevo123 wrote:I have that book myself, and it's ok for seeing some different chord forms. Although the biggest thing IMO is to see the root-fifth combinations all the way up the neck. A lot of guitar books out there teach that the rhythm guitarist should focus on the 3rd and 7th of the chord and omit the root and fifth. But I've found this is exactly the opposite of how most Dead material is played. Most bob stuff I've found revolves around upper register root-fifth combinations, with thirds and sevenths played more sparingly and an occasional ninth. Stick to two note voicings and fill voids where no one else is playing.

Some of the most iconic Bobby stuff that I work on has a HUGE reliance on 3rds and 7ths. And it's good practice to assume that other bandmates are hitting the root hard and they bass and keys have a strong 1st 5th reliance going on....
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby DeadAheadNH » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:32 pm

strumminsix wrote:
Stevo123 wrote:I have that book myself, and it's ok for seeing some different chord forms. Although the biggest thing IMO is to see the root-fifth combinations all the way up the neck. A lot of guitar books out there teach that the rhythm guitarist should focus on the 3rd and 7th of the chord and omit the root and fifth. But I've found this is exactly the opposite of how most Dead material is played. Most bob stuff I've found revolves around upper register root-fifth combinations, with thirds and sevenths played more sparingly and an occasional ninth. Stick to two note voicings and fill voids where no one else is playing.

Some of the most iconic Bobby stuff that I work on has a HUGE reliance on 3rds and 7ths. And it's good practice to assume that other bandmates are hitting the root hard and they bass and keys have a strong 1st 5th reliance going on....



... you know what I find interesting is expanding the CAGED theory of playing runs "inside" the usual chord shapes to include the inverted shapes ... and by inverted shapes I mean using note combinations that start the root/3rd/5th/7th. You can choose to omit the 3rd to give the "chord" minor/major ambiguity but still choose to use it in a rhythmic run. I guess what I'm trying to say is that by going through this exercise of learning these new shapes you can't help but get more familiar with the fretboard and find very cool new ways of linking harmonic progressions in ways that weren't so obvious before or in ways that seemed disjointed and now seem completely self evident. A big :idea: moment for me was to see the relationships (and fingerings) of maj7 to relative min7 or a 6 chord to a relative minor 9 - they're starting to blur into a common vocabulary when playing as opposed to a gazillion individual chords and theory bits to memorize. What's this have to do with BOB - he knew his fretboard and was very creative in "real time" ... anything to get us to sit down and get closer to that is a good thing :hail:
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby Grateful Dad » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:38 pm

marcuskeyser wrote:hi ... let me know how that goes for you !!!! This book is great to do in spurts ... it takes a while to memorize the fingerings of the inversions but once that's over with I think the practice examples really force you to apply the skills up and down the fretboard. HAVE FUN and happy playing :P


Hey Marcus,
The book should be here later this week via UPS. I'll let you know then. One of the things I am really digging is playing guitar comps to my son (12 yrs. old) who is studying Classical, Ragtime, and Jazz piano. His teacher wants him to be well rounded in theory and playing and so do I. I'll need to stay one step ahead of him he's learning so much! One can never stop learning.

Hey Strummin,
Alot of what I am noticing in Bobby's playing is his harmonizing to Jerry's lines where all or some of the tones of a particular scale are in play. What I am looking for are some shows where Bobby is up in the mix, any suggestions? Early 70's seem the best, after that his guitar does not seem so up front in the mix. Is it me or did he just get turned down in the mix?

Thank you both for all your help!

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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby strumminsix » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:41 pm

There is this little trick where Bobby would play a chord and then finger these short little runs around a chord notes.

GDad - if you give me an Archive example I'll be able to help more.
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby Rusty the Scoob » Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:01 pm

Grateful Dad wrote: What I am looking for are some shows where Bobby is up in the mix, any suggestions? Early 70's seem the best, after that his guitar does not seem so up front in the mix. Is it me or did he just get turned down in the mix?



He came and went in the mix at the mercy of the keyboard players IMHO. Brent's huge B3 sound left him very little space. Keth's piano left him some. My favorite Bobby period is 72/73, one drummer, and Keith was still very responsive yet understated.
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby JonnyBoy » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:23 am

I don't mean to take the thread in another direction, I am trying to gather Bobby info to help our Rhythm guitarist lay down the right palate for the Dead songs we play. Good info here and around about his technique, but I am wondering about setting up a twin like amp to get a good tone, probably more like an early to mid 80's clean/phase tone. How do some of y'all get your Bobby mojo working on your regular amps, (for those without the entire Bobby setups).
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby strumminsix » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:37 am

For guitar tone I'd say think about how you can dial in an amp that is strongly focused on the range between:
Low mids
Presence (or high mids if you prefer)

Be sure to not sound anemic in the low end or picky in the high end
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby CoolBreeze » Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:17 am

Bobby fans may find this interesting for figuring out some of his parts on these songs. Never ceases to amaze me - not sure if it's been posted before or not:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd84-xx-xx.sbd.samaritano.16613.sbeok.shnf


Interesting rehearsals from 1984 with Just Bob and a drum track, then Bob, Phil, and a drum track, and eventually the whole band:

t01 - Throwin' Stones
2/21/84 Studio Demo - Bob Weir and Linn Drum

t02 - Hell in a Bucket
t03 - Brother Esau
2/25/84 Studio Demo - Bob Weir, Phil Lesh, and Linn Drum

t04 - Day Tripper
t05 - Tons of Steel
t06 - Tom Thumb's Blues
12/18/84 GD Rehearsal
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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby mkaufman » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:08 am

INCREDIBLE recording! It really shows off Bob & Phil's talent. The Bob/Phil/drum version Bucket is rockin'! It reminds me of Easy Answers on Rob Wasserman's Trio's recording (Weir, Wasserman & Neil Young). Esau is nice too.
Any more recordings like this out there?

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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby CoolBreeze » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:31 am

Yeah MK- that set of recordings is just GOLDEN to me! After all this time- I'm still amazed that I am constantly finding Dead recordings I've never heard before!

I haven't come across anything quite like that since, but if you go to archive.org and search the Dead section for "Rehearsal" "Outtake" and especially "Club Front" - what come across is just a treasure trove of goodies. There's a 30 min "Brother Essau" rehearsal that just kills out there- just to name one of many-

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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby CoolBreeze » Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:37 am

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Re: Learning the Bobby guitar parts

Postby ampegbassplayer1969 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:18 pm

I've been playing Bobby in my Dead jam band for a few months now.. The best way for me to learn how to play Bobby parts is to CRANK shows and just jam, you'll come up with your own Bobby sounding licks. Try to play between the chords, don't be afraid to NOT PLAY if something doesn't sound right...

Here's an excellent show to lift some licks from, Bobby is screaming loud in the mix, and it's a killer show.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd72-10- ... sbeok.shnf

I'm still working on my Bobby sound, so far I'm using an Ibanez Artcore AS-73 (ES335 knock-off) with stock p-ups, thinking about upgrading to the DiMarzio virtual PAF's and Coil-tapping them? And I'm running directly into my amp which is a Peavey Classic 50. I'm going for the early 70's sound, and this set-up has been working out for me so far. What are you guys using?
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